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Author Topic: Isnt there something we can learn from them?  (Read 12198 times)

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Offline mdivancic

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 02:11:07 AM »
Quote from: save2600;539243
ST users are about the goofiest bunch of classic computing users you'll ever meet. I once had a Mega 2 system that everyone "wanted" AND advertised in an Atari specific forum, but nobody really had the cash for it. It had a VGA card, 16mhz Accelerator and a SCSI card all built in. Because the Atari people were soooooo loopy, I decided to strip the damn thing to its bare essentials and sold off the lot piece by piece. That bit of mental retardation brought in about 6x the amount I was originally asking to be done with the whole system. We all know stuff like this is worth more separately, but c'mon... that was just plain ridiculous.


And this is different from us Amiga users how?
Mikey
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Offline save2600

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2010, 02:13:15 AM »
Quote from: mdivancic;539250
And this is different from us Amiga users how?

Amiga users generally have a LOT more disposable income for this junk... lol

BTW: I was only originally asking $85-$100 for that Mega ST 2  ;)
 

Offline spihunter

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2010, 02:15:33 AM »
Yea, That is a big divide in the Amiga world.... Not only are we fractured between red/blue/aros but there is also the big crowd here that is just into retro Amiga....


This is an interesting thread cause I did just go look at what was going on in Atari retro world these days! :)


Quote from: redrumloa;539218
IMO we could learn something from the Commodore 8bit market. Most users accepted the platform as a retro hobby 15+ years ago. Many Amiga users (and companies) still expect the Amiga to take over the world, which is far too unrealistic of a goal.
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2010, 02:17:26 AM »
Quote from: Gulliver;539205
The Good things about the Atari

The CT60/CT63 accelerator can achieve 105 mhz with 68060 cpu and can hold up to 512 MB of PC-100 (7ns ram).


Yep I think it's a shame, it would be great if I could buy a new 68060 100mhz card for my 1200 :(
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 03:28:31 AM by NovaCoder »
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline spihunter

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2010, 02:19:17 AM »
Amiga users have way too much freaking money!!!. I'm constantly shocked by what people pay for stuff on ebay.....I will never buy another piece of retro Amiga stuff again.. Its insanity!!!



Quote from: save2600;539251
Amiga users generally have a LOT more disposable income for this junk... lol

BTW: I was only originally asking $85-$100 for that Mega ST 2  ;)
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 02:39:52 AM »
amiga > atari

teeheee

But seriously, I mean it.

(lots of love for atari fans though)
 

Offline Debaser

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2010, 02:48:16 AM »
Quote from: spihunter;539252
Yea, That is a big divide in the Amiga world.... Not only are we fractured between red/blue/aros but there is also the big crowd here that is just into retro Amiga....


This is an interesting thread cause I did just go look at what was going on in Atari retro world these days! :)


I have recently checked them out to see what is going on as well actually. Funny thing is - I couldn't really find a popular hub/forum for Atari-land that seemed to have some excitement or at least interesting conversation. Am I blind???
 

Offline Tension

Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2010, 02:52:57 AM »
Quote from: Debaser;539258
I have recently checked them out to see what is going on as well actually. Funny thing is - I couldn't really find a popular hub/forum for Atari-land that seemed to have some excitement or at least interesting conversation. Am I blind???


Yea, I remember reading a few years ago that thew Atari scene was finally dead.

Not Amiga-like dead, but actually DEAD.

A quick glance at atari.org seems to confirm this.

Although I had no love for the ST, it is quite sad that the scene is finally over  :(

Offline save2600

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2010, 02:53:43 AM »
Quote from: Debaser;539258
I couldn't really find a popular hub/forum for Atari-land that seemed to have some excitement or at least interesting conversation. Am I blind???

Nope, don't fret. You're not blind! Hell, there's more going on in the TRS-80, TI-99/4A and Apple ][+ worlds than 16-bit Atari currently ;)

Let's not forget something... the Atari ST was designed from the ground up to be a utilitarian/appliance type computer. Cheap computing for cheap bastards. That was Idek Tramielski's first, foremost and ONLY game plan since founding Commodore. Mass quantity sales worked for systems like the C=64, but by the time that the second and third generation of home computing hit, that ideology was quickly becoming obsolete. People wanted something either REALLY different or something VERY similar. These are just my opinions and observations growing up with the stuff mind you and there's a ton of idiosyncrasies and other managerial/marketing type decisions going on - but... (and it doesn't matter that Atari designers designed the Amiga) fact remains that once Tramiel left Commodore and fled to Atari, it was pretty much the beginning of the end for both companies. Their management (at both corporations) were so out of touch that it wasn't funny. Neither really knew how to market what they had. Especially Commodore. Atari ruined their reputation with retailers and users alike between shitty relations with corporate buyers to the fact the average consumer wasn't going to be duped by Atari's (and to a lesser extenet: Commodore's) rehashing of obsolete computer shite.

Put simply: you don't continue to market 8-bit computing when you're trying to sell 16/32-bit computers. Never works, ever worked, and still wouldn't work. These guys were awful communicators and weren't really into the biz for computing in the first place. Especially Atari. Look at their ridiculously repackaged 8-bit crap (since the 800): the entire XL/XE line. Then there was the XEGS (joke), the 8-bit computer sans keyboard gaming console otherwise known as the 5200. 7800 was a joke compared to the NES and the Lynx was even plagued by a shitty/blurry screen (great hardware otherwise, designed by Amiga people). Oh, can't forget about the folly that was the Jaguar...  :lol:  

C= had their share of retardation by releasing the 128 around the same time as Amiga and the rebranding of the C64c but at least they made far fewer model mistakes than Atari. Guess they always considered themselves competition, which was too bad. Competing against yourself NEVER works. Not in the 80's or 90's anyway. And we're not talking about auto's either. Perfect example of what I'm trying to convey is how GM and Chrysler dropped a few lines each. Why? Because they had too many brands that were ALL the same. Hardly any variance and people knew that.

Bottom line: no such thing as product loyalty anymore. Not since the floodgates of cheap ass disposable consumer electronics were made possible thanks to the administration of Silly Billy Clinton ;)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 03:13:01 AM by save2600 »
 

Offline Debaser

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 02:58:31 AM »
Quote from: Tension;539259
Yea, I remember reading a few years ago that thew Atari scene was finally dead.

Not Amiga-like dead, but actually DEAD.

A quick glance at atari.org seems to confirm this.

Although I had no love for the ST, it is quite sad that the scene is finally over  :(


Yeah.. hmmm well..... #!*& them anyhow. Hehe
 

Offline Tension

Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2010, 03:19:46 AM »
Quote from: save2600;539260

C= had their share of retardation by releasing the 128 around the same time as Amiga and the rebranding of the C64c but at least they made far fewer model mistakes than Atari. Guess they always considered themselves competition, which was too bad. Competing against yourself NEVER works. Not in the 80's or 90's anyway. And we're not talking about auto's either. Perfect example of what I'm trying to convey is how GM and Chrysler dropped a few lines each. Why? Because they had too many brands that were ALL the same. Hardly any variance and people knew that.

Bottom line: no such thing as product loyalty anymore. Not since the floodgates of cheap ass disposable consumer electronics were made possible thanks to the administration of Silly Billy Clinton ;)


Never mind that, CBM were selling bloddy PC's at the same time as they were "selling" the Amiga line.

Commodore didn't release Amigas - They escaped!!

Offline save2600

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2010, 03:26:51 AM »
Quote from: Tension;539265
Never mind that, CBM were selling bloddy PC's at the same time as they were "selling" the Amiga line.

Commodore didn't release Amigas - They escaped!!

LOL! How in the hell could I forget that?!? The PC10 and PC20 I think they were called. Not really marketed over here in the States though... mostly an overseas scam, were they not...  lol

Just remembered something... believe it or not, I saw Commodore's PC compatibles behind glass, marketed and for sale at the Toys 'R Us stores in Chicagoland back in the day. Talk about brand and marketing confusion.  :lol:
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 04:43:48 AM by save2600 »
 

Offline kolla

Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2010, 04:51:51 AM »
You guys live under rocks, obviously even I know more about the current Atari community, which is somewhat scary. The least you can do is to try out Aranym with AFROS to see what relatively modern Atari usage is about: http://aranym.sourceforge.net/
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
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CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
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Offline kolla

Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2010, 05:01:44 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;539221
Surely nobody left is that naive?
Sadly, lots.

Quote
For instance, Hyperion market OS4.x with the "Remember when computing was fun?" line. That doesn't tend to suggest they feel it's going to be a workplace contender to me.

It's their "selling mantra" for "outsiders", an attempt to delude people into thinking that "amiga is back", and there's plenty of people in the "community" who buys into this, sadly. It's like a mental hospital with Hyperion (currently) as the local Napoleon, allthough with Hyperion I have this feeling that they are playing with the other patients minds on purpose to generate some profit.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline beller

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2010, 06:31:34 AM »
Quote from: save2600;539266
LOL! How in the hell could I forget that?!? The PC10 and PC20 I think they were called. Not really marketed over here in the States though... mostly an overseas scam, were they not...  lol

Just remembered something... believe it or not, I saw Commodore's PC compatibles behind glass, marketed and for sale at the Toys 'R Us stores in Chicagoland back in the day. Talk about brand and marketing confusion.  :lol:


Actually, I owned a Commodore PC 10 which I carted into work since the powers that be had deemed it ok to put the computer in a room and let 10 people fight to use it!  Glad those days are gone.  It wasn't a bad machine for the time, CGA graphics and all.  I eventually upgraded it to a '286 before I sold it!

Great thread! I've made no attempt to hide the fact that I prefer the retro side of life.  In fact, I find myself beating on the 64c and SX-64 lately, and more than I've been using the Amigas I have.  While I love the thought of a 4.x Amiga system, I'm not about to pay the price required for admission...

Brand confusion is a perfect term for what's going on in the Amiga world these days.  Which, ultimately, is part of the reason the Amiga had trouble finding a market in the 80s and 90s.  The clone PC was for work, the Mac for desktop publishing, and the Amiga chased desperately for a niche until NewTek attempted to tackle the desktop video market in the 90s. Too bad that video production didn't have the impact on users that personal publishing did.    

Commodore's friendly image translated to "toy computers" in the US and they never really shook that image in the mass market here.  A sad story we all know...

Bob
 

Offline recidivist

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Re: Isnt there something we can learn from them?
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 20, 2010, 06:45:36 AM »
A  lot of the old C64 ganes are just right for those who want something fun and not too darn complicated if only the slow loading of the nest portion can be bypassed with jiffyDos or better some solid state drive.The C64 people only expect to have FUN with their stufflthey don't hope to become a major market force.

Why are some here bashing the Atari users?If you don't like that stuff,then don't buy it.(I have  both 520 and 1040 plus  some 800s;and it  seemed to me that Atari niche was musicians at the same time Amiga niche was video.)Now the sound cards in x86 PCs have more processor than the whole computer of the early 80s)Things change.