Where to find Birdie?

[Karlos]

CLI's a way more potent than GUI's for a large range of everyday tasks.

[Hell Labs]

I can't think of a single thing a cli does that a gui can't. And the gui method is much better for actual productivity, you don't have to keep listing crap out and memorising switches. else we'd be using linux with "screen" installed, I mean clis are only good when you don't want a gui taking up resources or there isn't one avalible yet. But I can't be bothered arguing right now.
 
@fishy_fiz: Sorry I never saw your post. But If the offer of help is still on the table then I accept.

[Tempest]

CLI's a way more potent than GUI's for a large range of everyday tasks.

Excactly, I use many console apps on my Debian box like screen, mc, moc, irssi, rtorrent, links2, centerim just to name a few. They are fast and very low on recourses. I also burn DVDs and CDs from console and pack/unpack archives with just a simple command.

There are so many good console apps available that you actually can do without a gui if you want to.

[outlawal2]

I can't think of a single thing a cli does that a gui can't. And the gui method is much better for actual productivity, you don't have to keep listing crap out and memorising switches. else we'd be using linux with "screen" installed, I mean clis are only good when you don't want a gui taking up resources or there isn't one avalible yet. But I can't be bothered arguing right now.
 
@fishy_fiz: Sorry I never saw your post. But If the offer of help is still on the table then I accept.

"But I can't be bothered to argue right now"

HaHa, that is laughable.  All you have done is jump on here and argue...  
GO AWAY friggin Troll Boy.  

Go away..

[AeroMan]

CLI's a way more potent than GUI's for a large range of everyday tasks.

I don´t like CLI´s. It is a thing to be kept on the past.
If you analyze everything that is done with CLI you will find that it is possible to implement a cleaner way to do it graphically. GUIs are always more intuitive.
It is quite hard to keep in mind all commands and options, even for advanced users
I do agree however with Kolla that it is easier to give support to CLI users. But today, it should be possible to find a way to remotelly conect to the computer and check the user´s screen to support him. (I´m just dreaming about it)
This is my personal opinion...

[Hell Labs]

"But I can't be bothered to argue right now"
 
HaHa, that is laughable. All you have done is jump on here and argue...
GO AWAY friggin Troll Boy.
 
Go away..

THat's not what troll means.
 
Aeroman: I think windows has been doing that for years, I think it's called shared desktop. Though VNC could be used the same way?

[Fingers]

THat's not what troll means.

Are you talking about the correct definition of the word, or what you are accused of being?

Ah shit...I'm feeding the troll!

[Karlos]

How does a question about birdie end up being a flamewar?

"Classic" versions of MacOS were composed amlost entirely of fail. From using the upper 8-bits of address registers to hold data in old m68k releases, to using exception traps for system calls, to releasing the OS on PPC in which most m68k apps ran much slower than on the machines they were supposed to replace. In the end, even Apple realised what a festering pile it was and decided to start all over agian with a real kernel. So, users should be in no doubt.

However, all of the above isn't the topic. Birdie and/or suitable replacements such as AfA, are.

[AmigaHeretic]

??

In 3.9 that would be 107, and typically in 102dot4 where the last 5 chars are .info - where on earth did you pick up "dot3", what do you think this is.. frigging MSDOS??? :laughing:

I was saying that Mac OS9 has 27dot3 file name limit.  ;-)

[AmigaHeretic]

How does a question about birdie end up being a flamewar?

The guy is trolling.  Read one his first posts, he starts going off how Amiga is crap and MAC OS is better because, and I quote, "Apple didn't even bother with Multitasking or even COLOUR"


Anyway, I leave him to his Mil-Spec Mac Plus.....

[MskoDestny]

From using the upper 8-bits of address registers to hold data in old m68k releases,

This was a problem with applications (and extension) not the system itself. Even the Amiga wasn't immune to this sort of bad behavior (Amiga Basic anyone?)

to using exception traps for system calls,

This isn't completely unreasonable. On the 68000 the extra overhead doesn't buy you very much, but on later machines with MMUs such a mechanism is necessary to provide proper memory protection (not that classic Mac OS took advantage of that...).

The biggest problems were the hackish way multitasking was implemented and that file access was handled by an application (the Finder) rather than having proper layering.

They tried quite a while to make a next-gen Mac OS that would fix the problems, but they couldn't make it work so they gave up and bought NeXT instead.

I can't think of a single thing a cli does that a gui can't. And the gui method is much better for actual productivity, you don't have to keep listing crap out and memorising switches.

For one, command line programs are easier to script and I say this having used a number of automation tools for classic Mac OS. Certain bulk operations are much faster to do via a CLI as well. Deleting all the files that end with a certain string is trivial via a CLI with wildcards, but requires a fair amount of manual work in a GUI. This not to say that it's superior for everything, but it is handy to have around.

[amigadave]

Why would anyone think they could win a flame war on an Amiga forum when arguing the benefits of MacOS Classic against AmigaOS? :crazy:

[Karlos]

This was a problem with applications (and extension) not the system itself. Even the Amiga wasn't immune to this sort of bad behavior (Amiga Basic anyone?)

Shush, we don't talk about that Anyway, I recall quite clearly that you had to make sure you used the correct ROM images with various emulators that were 32-bit clean, since earlier ROM's were not above abusing the upper 8-bits of the address registers.

[

This isn't completely unreasonable. On the 68000 the extra overhead doesn't buy you very much, but on later machines with MMUs such a mechanism is necessary to provide proper memory protection (not that classic Mac OS took advantage of that...).

This is the same mechanism that utterly cripples floating point software using unimplemented 6888x instruction calls and invoking an exception trap. To say the overhead isn't that bad is being economical with the truth, really.
Now, if you need to go supervisor, that's fine. However, as you say, classic MacOS didn't actually bother making use of the extended control over the system that doing so would afford, so in fact, you've basically got a cripplingly slow system call that you could have implemented fine in user mode.

The biggest problems were the hackish way multitasking was implemented and that file access was handled by an application (the Finder) rather than having proper layering.

They tried quite a while to make a next-gen Mac OS that would fix the problems, but they couldn't make it work so they gave up and bought NeXT instead.


For one, command line programs are easier to script and I say this having used a number of automation tools for classic Mac OS. Certain bulk operations are much faster to do via a CLI as well. Deleting all the files that end with a certain string is trivial via a CLI with wildcards, but requires a fair amount of manual work in a GUI. This not to say that it's superior for everything, but it is handy to have around.

OSX was the best thing to happen to Macs, ever, IMO.

[Hell Labs]

I like how me becoming extremely annoyed at a lack of user friendlyness when attempting a basic task (That I can do ten times easier in a text editor in say, linux) is perceived as "trolling" (and not even the correct use of the word trolling). Because when a flaw is found, it is the users fault, the user doesn't deserve to use it and should sell it to somebody "worthy".

I also particularly like how an operating system that was designed with an actually decent UI (and indeed, everything else a none-programmer sees was designed better too) was characterized as "composed almost entirely of fail", yet the one that ties the end user up and beats them with electric stun batons is praised because the hardware it shipped on had a nice chipset, and the magic it was powered by was blue and not red or something.

[Karlos]

I like how me becoming extremely annoyed at a lack of user friendlyness when attempting a basic task (That I can do ten times easier in a text editor in say, linux) is perceived as "trolling" (and not even the correct use of the word trolling). Because when a flaw is found, it is the users fault, the user doesn't deserve to use it and should sell it to somebody "worthy".

Birdie is a hack, at the end of the day, but not complex to install. But if you are still struggling, I'm pretty sure I can dig out the config I was using when I last used birdie and tell you exactly where in the startup sequence to insert the relevant text. The task you are trying to do is exactly what you just described, adding a few lines to a text file.

I also particularly like how an operating system that was designed with an actually decent UI (and indeed, everything else a none-programmer sees was designed better too) was characterized as "composed almost entirely of fail", yet the one that ties the end user up and beats them with electric stun batons is praised because the hardware it shipped on had a nice chipset, and the magic it was powered by was blue and not red or something.

I did point out that this was not on topic but if you ever tried writing any code for it, you'd understand. The people that developed it understood too. Which is why they abandoned it totally in favour of Darwin.

[motorollin]

It's a bit sad when adults are still arguing and insulting each other over whose computer is best :rolleyes:

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moto