Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Where to find Birdie?  (Read 18053 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cv643d

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 1197
    • Show only replies by cv643d
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2010, 07:39:49 PM »
Birdie is not the most userfriendly app to install and run on an Amiga, but considering it is a OS patch/hack its easy to install.

If it was MS-DOS system, you have to learn autoexec and config.sys. If it is Amiga and you want to run a bit higher end system you need some insight into user-startup and startup-sequence.
Amiga articles
"New shell. It was finished a while back, but I still see bugs, haha" - SSolie
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show only replies by Hell Labs
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 07:44:25 PM »
Quote from: MskoDestny;538108
I don't think that's terribly fair. Classic Mac OS generally had better usability (though having to manually adjust memory limits for software wasn't so nice....), but was a complete mess architecturally. It was a single tasking OS until System 5 came out in 1987 and multitasking was implemented as an extension until System 7. Even then it was a rather nasty hack that wasn't cleaned up until OS X. Further all file access went through the Finder and the finder could only support a single operation at a time until Mac OS 8.

Ahh, but usability is what the USER sees, and what he or she judges it on. Joe bloggs doesn't know or even care whats behind what he sees on the screen.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 821
    • Show only replies by AmigaHeretic
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 08:14:35 PM »
You're negative points are a lot of the exact same reasons we still use Amiga and want to see a modern AmigaOS return ( on reasonable priced hardware)

Amiga == User is in control

Taking the way Amiga starts up for example.   I think it is organize very well.   You have:

2 Text files:
Startup-Sequence - which is mostly OS stuff
User-Startup - which is where more advanced users do whatever startup stuff they want
Folder:
WBStartup - which is where it's more abstracted away so it's just drag and drop


AmigaOS gives you more control MORE easily.  

I don't want a registry where there are litterally MILLIONS of entries for just my OS and the 10 programs I have installed.

MAC isn't much better with it's ".plist" instead of registry spread all over God's green earth:
HD > Library > Preferences
User > Library > Preferences
Library > Application Support
etc, etc, etc....


I want a single user OS where I control things.  I don't want user control crap, if I want to run a virus then I'll damn well run a virus.
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
Back in my day, we didn\'t have water. We only had Oxygen and Hydrogen, and we\'d just have to shove them together.
 

Offline outlawal2

Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2010, 08:53:32 PM »
Quote from: Hell Labs;538096
I wonder that. I really do. So far, the amiga in a nutshell:

shit, yet fast operating system
nice hardware
price gouged market

fair?


That's the spirit, jump on an Amiga board, insult it's users, trash the OS and whine your ass off...  
Why don't you LEAVE and make sure to give your Amiga away to aomeone that has a friggin CLUE

Friggin Jerk-Off
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show only replies by Hell Labs
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2010, 09:08:49 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;538120
You're negative points are a lot of the exact same reasons we still use Amiga and want to see a modern AmigaOS return ( on reasonable priced hardware)

Amiga == User is in control

Taking the way Amiga starts up for example.   I think it is organize very well.   You have:

2 Text files:
Startup-Sequence - which is mostly OS stuff
User-Startup - which is where more advanced users do whatever startup stuff they want
Folder:
WBStartup - which is where it's more abstracted away so it's just drag and drop


AmigaOS gives you more control MORE easily.  

I don't want a registry where there are litterally MILLIONS of entries for just my OS and the 10 programs I have installed.

MAC isn't much better with it's ".plist" instead of registry spread all over God's green earth:
HD > Library > Preferences
User > Library > Preferences
Library > Application Support
etc, etc, etc....


I want a single user OS where I control things.  I don't want user control crap, if I want to run a virus then I'll damn well run a virus.

You made the Mistake of confusing Mac OS X with anything I would wish on even my greatest enemy. A real Mac OS doesn't have ".plist" files, nor "library" folders.

@outlawal2: Butthurt much?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2010, 09:27:06 PM »
The irony here is that if you seriously want to tweak OSX, what do you have to do? That's right, edit startup files and xml files manually. Supposedly this is considered progress :)

For what it's worth, one can easily create a "extensions" folder on the amiga as well, and create a single file for every tiny bit of startup code - but really, what's the point? Make it easier for Mac users? Why?

I personally never found Macos particularly user friendly, with all its various secret hotkeys for ejecting CD on bootup, space wasting menu bar, lack of proper CLI, messing around with applescript to do the simples things, silly lockup situations because floppy was ejected via menu instead of trashcan, high priority system sounds (DOSing mac users on terminals by sending bell to them; quack quack quack...), windows on network drives opening outside of the display because it remembers the location it had on a different machine... half duplex sound system (not being able to record while playing sounds at the same time, had me pussled for a while), apps hanging around even after you close last window (lots of peeople forgot to quit apps and kept starting new apps till they ran out of RAM)... ugly hacks like ram-doubler, disk-doubler, speed-doubler, whatever-doubler, the damn data and resource mess making interchanging files with other systems a mess, the charset, the line breaks, the horrors of stuffit in all its incarnations, all the hoops and flames one had to jump through to change apps assosiated with a given file, the single button mouse, the powerswtich on various quadra and early powermacs located where many people would expect floppy eject to be... our poor 10Mbit network being bogged down by the very chattative appletalk... ok, enough for now.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 10:21:50 PM by kolla »
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Thorham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 1150
    • Show only replies by Thorham
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2010, 10:06:08 PM »
Quote from: Hell Labs;538096
shit, yet fast operating system
If you think AOS is shit then what are you doing here? If it's about the games, then go and play a game and have fun. If it's not about the games, then why do you even bother? If you don't like AOS, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show only replies by Hell Labs
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2010, 10:17:41 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;538153
If you think AOS is shit then what are you doing here? If it's about the games, then go and play a game and have fun. If it's not about the games, then why do you even bother? If you don't like AOS, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to.


Because when the stars Align right, and I've done all the chants and warmed up the dribbly candles it lets me get some work done.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Thorham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 1150
    • Show only replies by Thorham
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2010, 10:18:49 PM »
Quote from: Hell Labs;538157
Because when the stars Align right, and I've done all the chants and warmed up the dribbly candles it lets me get some work done.
What do you want to use AOS for?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:12:29 AM by Thorham »
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 821
    • Show only replies by AmigaHeretic
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2010, 04:40:08 AM »
Quote from: Hell Labs;538134
You made the Mistake of confusing Mac OS X with anything I would wish ohttp://www.amiga.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=53813n even my greatest enemy. A real Mac OS doesn't have ".plist" files, nor "library" folders.


Ha ha!! So you ARE saying you like OS 9!

OS 9 is great if you like RAM limits, 27dot3 filename length limit, something won't work and you get to spend all day disabling and re-enabling your extensions over and over till it magically works again,  right click anybody, making sure each program has enough memory, "out of memory!" notices and the follow-up crashes, it doesn't have a CLI thus effectively condemming it into being a "toy" OS at best, etc, etc, etc.....

You Mac lovers pretend everything is perfect but we all know the truth.   Mac-in-trash!
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
Back in my day, we didn\'t have water. We only had Oxygen and Hydrogen, and we\'d just have to shove them together.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2010, 09:36:39 AM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;538218
27dot3 filename length limit


??

In 3.9 that would be 107, and typically in 102dot4 where the last 5 chars are .info - where on earth did you pick up "dot3", what do you think this is.. frigging MSDOS??? :laughing:
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show only replies by Hell Labs
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2010, 10:21:58 AM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;538218
Ha ha!! So you ARE saying you like OS 9!

OS 9 is great if you like RAM limits, 27dot3 filename length limit, something won't work and you get to spend all day disabling and re-enabling your extensions over and over till it magically works again,  right click anybody, making sure each program has enough memory, "out of memory!" notices and the follow-up crashes, it doesn't have a CLI thus effectively condemming it into being a "toy" OS at best, etc, etc, etc.....

You Mac lovers pretend everything is perfect but we all know the truth.   Mac-in-trash!

Ram limits? I've got 512mb in my mac and it runs perfect. Never ran against the file name limit ever, Never had a single extension problem ( but never ran those stupid gimmick ones either), never ran out of memory (virtual memory is your friend), only ever had a crash when trying to run Arkanoid, etc. And why would not having a CLI make it a toy OS? CLIs are completely unnecessary. they are slower than a GUI, more difficult to learn, and usually only ever needed when someone forgets to make a GUI for something. I'd wager that the only time a CLI is useful is Apt-get on linux. Tell me, if OS9 had such a problem with not having a primitive and pointless cli, don't you think they would have added one?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Fingers

Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2010, 11:09:43 AM »
 

Offline fishy_fiz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2005
  • Posts: 1813
    • Show only replies by fishy_fiz
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2010, 12:06:37 PM »
So do you actually want help with birdie or not ? I offered to run you through it step by step, but you continue to just judge based on how it does things differently to what youre familiar with. Birdie is quite a big hack, and in no way shape or form a library. If it was a library it'd just go in libs. It's a hack, and a command line driven one, and as such it fits quite comfortbly in C. Sure the end result of using birdie is a nice pattern, but to achieve that result on a system that hasnt been officially updated in nearly 2 decades, as has been the case in this time its users came up with thier own methods to enhance the system. Because of this there are no set rules, not everything has a nice installer or co-operates without a little bit of experimenting. In the case of things like birdie, visual prefs, afa_os they actually patch some fairly low level stuff sometimes so care has to be taken. Amiga OS itself is very clear to understand and things always work as they should, it just sometimes takes a little effort to find out how homebrew/3rd party software works (which has nothing to do with the OS). Again, I offer my help. You couldve had it fixed by now if you didnt keep comparing the way Amiga OS and what youre used to. Theyre different OSes, so why should they behave exactly the same ?
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2010, 12:19:30 PM »
Quote from: Hell Labs;538244
And why would not having a CLI make it a toy OS? CLIs are completely unnecessary. they are slower than a GUI, more difficult to learn, and usually only ever needed when someone forgets to make a GUI for something.


So you're saying that you're a slowe typer, find it difficult to read and learn, and only do trivial tasks on your computers. Sounds like a typical old Mac user yes :)

From experience I find it much easier to give support for a CLI than a GUI over phone. With a CLI you just tell people what to type, with a GUI you need to somehow communicate "what does it look like now", and that's quite hopeless.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Karlos

  • Sockologist
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2002
  • Posts: 16878
  • Country: gb
  • Thanked: 5 times
    • Show only replies by Karlos
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #44 from previous page: January 14, 2010, 12:24:13 PM »
CLI's a way more potent than GUI's for a large range of everyday tasks.
int p; // A