Relative merits of AmigaOne compared to Pegasos?

[Damion]

Contrary to what has been stated before, this site seems more wiegted towards the pegasos than the AmigaOne, if this is due to pegaos promotors being more vocal on not is really a non issue, whilst Amigaworld.net seems more wieghted towards AmigaOne and the "official" solution.

The AmigaOne is an "official" AmigaOne, and the
Pegasos is an "official" Pegasos... the A1 is also
'NOT' an "official" Pegasos...basically they are
equally official..

[Seehund]

vortexau wrote:

One correction that I could make to that comparison chart that Seehund so kindly provided, is the G4 cpu provided with the A1XEG4 can be clocked at 800 or 933Mhz and retain dealer warrenty.

No, according to Alan Redhouse you void your warranty if you run the CPU at its normal Motorola-specified max speed (933MHz).

I would hope that there's a reason behind selling the Teron PX's advertised, specified and underclocked to 800MHz core frequency, and that it's not done just for fun! Now it's sold and guaranteed only as an 800MHz system, so of course that's the figure used in the comparison.

A question to the Teron owners here; are the CPUs underclocked by having the multiplier decreased or by setting the FSB to 100MHz?

[MikeB]

Oh, I forgot to mention one more factor and that's the form factor.

If you want to use a regular ATX case the following is pretty much irrelevant and you could just as well go for a full sized ATX board.

But the Pegasos2 has a MircoATX form factor and can be housed in a Micro-ATX case.

The AmigaOne-Lite is much smaller, but will have less expansion abilities. But the board's mini-itx form factor is also backward-compatible with both Flex-ATX and Micro-ATX.

Some example Mini-ITX cases you could build yourself:

An Atari 800 case:



A Commodore 64 case:



 8-)

[BouncingAyatollah]

I'd be interested in getting a new PPC system (as opposed to a PPC card for my old machine) and have noticed that there are currently two real choices: An AmigaOne/Lite or a Pegasos II.

Leaping into the frying pan, I'd say wait - wait for the AmigaOne Lite and OS4 to come out then decide.

PegasOS and AmigaOne are pretty much alike hardware wise, the real issues as I see it (future software support) have yet to manifest as OS4 is not yet ready.

MorphOS will run many *AmigaOS 3* applications. At such a point when AmigaOS 4+ applications become available, the situation becomes more uncertain. I have been considering this for months yet only recently have threads appeared discussing this aspect - which devolve into "licensing scheme" flame wars and such, thus avoiding answering the question itself.

It seems unlikely that AmigaOS 4 will be ported to PegasOS (another hot topic) and whether AmigaDE will is also a thorny subject. Thus, perhaps future applications will be split into either AmigaOS 4 native and MorphOS (QBox?) native, unless some agreement or solution is reached to run either on either, which as I said seems rather "nebulous" to say the least.

It may be that MorphOS native apps appear that will not be supported on AOS4 and that AOS4 apps will appear that will not be supported on MorphOS, or there may be solution which allows easy porting either way - who knows? It seems to me that if you want to buy NOW to run linux, MacOnLinux, etc. etc., either board will do. If you want MorphOS future apps go for a PegasOS, if you want to run AmigaOS future apps go for an AmigaOne. AmigaDE being a current hot potato I would say if you want to be assured of running AmigaDE go for an AmigaOne. Hence I say possibly best to wait a few more weeks and compare when the situation regarding furture support becomes clearer.

[Kronos]

If you want to be assured of running AmigaDE.....


go for a Windows-PC  :-P

And yes I am 100% (ah well 99%  ;-)  ) serious about that  :-x

[BouncingAyatollah]

@Seehund

If you want to be assured of running AmigaDE.....      go for a Windows-PC

That's another option!  :-)  I guess you could ALSO run all your "classic Amiga applications NOW" too (WinUAE)  :-)  :-)  :-)

[Seehund]

MikeB wrote:

I'b be interested in getting a new PPC system (as opposed to a PPC card for my old machine) and have noticed that there are currently two real choices: An AmigaOne/Lite or a Pegasos II.

Hhm, considering most people seem to be talking about the AmigaOne-XE instead of answering your question I should give it a try.

If you examine his question again, you'll see that he's asking about "real" choices.

Personally I interpreted his "AmigaOne/Lite" as "AmigaOne (current ones) or AmigaOne Lite".

The only "real choice" being sold under the "AmigaOne" trademark today and for any known period of time is the Teron PX.

Whatever board it is that one day will be sold as an "AmigaOne Lite" (sorry, namechange again, "Micro AmigaOne"), it's not even out of prototyping stage yet, and it's full and final specs are just as unknown as its price. Let's bring that board into the discussion when it's at least known what it is, when it'll be released and how much it'll cost.

First you need to ask yourself do you want AmigaOS4, MorphOS or do you just want to use Linux.

Read his question again. He has apparently already decided on this ("hardware platform that can run an 'Amiga-like' OS, along with Linux and maybe even OS X").

So, ignoring the "OS X" bit, it's narrowed down to a Teron or a Pegasos, unfortunately.

And if you want to run Linux wait for both the Pegasos2 and AmigaOne-Lite to be demonstrated in combination with Linux.

If he was just interested in Linux, I'd personally recommend a much cheaper and much faster x86 box, or maybe a second hand cheap PowerBook without the grunt to run OSX...

The MicroA1 (AmigaOne Lite) pricing has not yet to be announced but should be significantly cheaper than the AmigaOne-XE.

If this would be the case, Eyetech's pricing philosopy would look a bit strange. The board to be sold as a "MicroA1" is mini-ITX (more elaborate and expensive design and fabrication process), and it will apparently also have better specs than the Teron PX.

I suppose a reduction in price right from the start could come from Eyetech decreasing their margins. I don't know how much Eyetech pays for the Teron PX's when they buy them in volume, but 10-20% less than the "normal" Teron PX G4 end-user price of $500 could be a conservative guesstimate. That would give Eyetech a current margin of $350-400 per board!

[Seehund]

BouncingAyatollah wrote:
@Seehund

Huh? I believe you were replying to the Evil Klingon Klown!

[Kronos]

@Seehund

nah he just uncovered our secret:

You, me, meerschaum, Neko,Downix, AmiGR ......

are in reality one person with a slight case of schizophrenie  :-o

[BouncingAyatollah]

@Bills - er - Redrum -er - T_Bo - er - Seehund!

Huh? I believe you were replying to the Evil Klingon Klown!

Oops! Yeah, sorry, I was indeed - was just on my way to do something else and had a sneaky post LOL!

[Dietmar]

> Personally, I don't see this as much of a selling point for me since it will do next to nothing for the performance of the system over standard PC133 SDRAM since the G4 only has a 133MHz bus.

Don't confuse a PPC mainboard with a classic Amiga: Unlike the CPU in a classic Amiga, a G3/G4 is not connected to main memory. It is connected to the Northbridge via a bus called "Front Side Bus" (FSB). Other components with direct memory access capability (IDE, PCI, AGP) also go through the northbridge. The northbridge connects to memory via the memory bus. That bus and the FSB are unrelated. Different bandwidth, different protocol, even different clock is possible. A fast memory bus - faster than the FSB - obviously has performance benefits for the whole system because the CPU is only one of several Northbridge "customers".

If someone says "the G4 does not support DDR", it actually means that its bandwidth does not reach the bandwidth of DDR-RAM. It's not a statement about compatibility. And it's not an issue of the G4 not understanding the protocol of DDR RAM (it doesn't have to because it is not connected to it).

To the claim that a G4 is suitably served with 133 MHZ SD-RAM: The G4/Altivec bus(-protocol) on the FSB is faster than single data rate SD-RAM133. Even if the CPU was the only component you want to consider, SD-RAM133 after the northbridge already holds up a G4. I recall that for the CPU alone, the upgrade to DDR memory and reduced latency accounts for a 10% improvement. Add to that the benefits of DMA at DDR-RAM-speed and think of a scenario like games, compiling and AV (all saturating the bus with demands from the CPU, the grapics card and the IDE).

Finally, there is the price tag that makes DDR RAM a selling point: the first generation boards with an Arctica northbridge (Pegasos 1, Amiga One) usually require the use of registered SD-RAM. That is not only slower than  unregistered SD-RAM, it's also more expensive and difficult to find.

[MikeB]

@ Seehund

If you examine his question again, you'll see that he's asking about "real" choices

So, have you seen the Pegasos2 run anything yet? Like for instance Debian or MorphOS. How exactly is this board at this stage a more real solution than the AmigaOne-Lite which will be demonstrated tomorrow running Linux and hopefully a beta or alpha of AmigaOS4?

Read his question again. He has apparently already decided on this ("hardware platform that can run an 'Amiga-like' OS, along with Linux and maybe even OS X").

There are significant differences between AmigaOS4 and MorphOS. Thus I think this person should check out the feature lists, screenshots and other information for both platforms and maybe even give both operating systems a testdrive at upcoming shows/fairs.

Running classic AmigaOS inside Linux is always a possibility as is currenty provided with the AmigaOne earlybirds. We will have to wait and see how well Linux will run on the Pegasos2.

Wow 400 postings, I did it!  ;-) See ya.

[Hooligan_DCS]

@Hooligan_DCS:

I bought both.
Why should I have to defend my purchase of either?

I don't see what that has to do with the 'amiga spirit'.

What has Amigaspirit got to do with it? Well, maybe you were'nt there but I was fighting for Amiga against Atari and PC, furiously. Amiga was my choice, someone challenged it, I defended it.

Doesn't seem to happen anymore.. hence = Amiga spirit is dead.

Today is just the same, except today, Pegasos/MorphOS is the _direct_ competitor


(this goes to all who wrote an answer to my comment)

[JoannaK]

Hooligan: THE  Amiga that was worth fighting for has been dead for
years. This curent name-owner ain't nowere near.

[downix]

@MikeB

By your statement, it sounds as if Eyetech is developing the MicroA1 for free, due to reduced development costs.  I highly doubt this is the case.  In actuality, the dev costs for a Mini-ITX motherboard are greater than that of an ATX, due to the close proximity of the parts.  No spare room to "cheat your way" past the RF signals that do occur.

[Seehund]

MikeB wrote:
@ Seehund

If you examine his question again, you'll see that he's asking about "real" choices

So, have you seen the Pegasos2 run anything yet? Like for instance Debian or MorphOS.

Good point, and I agree with those that have said it's basically Yet Another Paper Launch until people hear a thump in their mailboxes.

How exactly is this board at this stage a more real solution than the AmigaOne-Lite

Because, in contrast to the MicroA1 board, it's for sale, it's specs are known and final, and it's for sale at a known final price. BTW, am I imagining things when I recall seeing someone from Genesi saying it's in production?
If any of this should change for the worse, affecting people who already have ordered it, then I'll join you in a unison BOO GENESI!

which will be demonstrated tomorrow running Linux

If I understood Alan R's and Ole-Egil's constant reminders correctly, the board that one of these days will be sold as a MicroA1 is still in prototyping, with yet unknown final specs, as well as undisclosed designers (let me guess... Hi Bill! ) and manufacturers. In that case, this prototype is what will be demonstrated in Austria.