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Author Topic: AO Interview - Dave Haynie  (Read 38566 times)

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Offline Hammer

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #59 from previous page: October 02, 2003, 12:26:21 AM »
Quote
>>MorphOS on Pegasos is more stable than AmigaOS3.9 on an Amiga, period.

Depending on the sets of application pool. Did you factored in compatibility issues as a factor for stability (cited as an example)? I recall there was a list (both unofficial and official) of compatible applications for MorphOS.
Amiga 1200 PiStorm32-Emu68-RPI 4B 4GB.
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB, RTX 4080 16 GB PC.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2003, 12:29:49 AM »
Quote
Kees is absolutely correct. This is not the time, or thread for it. This thread is about Dave's interview, not the average "which stick is bigger" conversation which pretty much consumes this community.

Yeah, totally agree, did not read that before after i had posted.
Quote
if you'd like to talk to me about the advantages of MorphOS and the Pegasos, just leave me an e-mail message and I'll be glad to discuss it off forum.

It was not really mean as discussion, more like a quesiton, since i have personally no experience at all with MorphOS
 

Offline JoannaK

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2003, 12:42:04 AM »
All in all I liked it.. there were some comments that did show some
prejudice but IMHO it's only human. But eanyhow most important and
relevant are his talks of those times (and incidents) he's been there
to see it.


What he's lkely be right is that non of these systems is likely to
become mainstream on dekstops. I have heard rumours of some people
'dreaming' on selling 5 Million Neo-Amigas just like that.


EDIT. For future clarification.. Neo-Amiga = Aone and it's variants ..
 

Offline SHADES

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2003, 01:20:17 AM »
My personal opinion is...

I also studied EE (electronic Engineering) and this man in my eyes is a legened.

You have to expect some predjudice for a bloke woh phisicaly worked on H/W and helped shaped software for a extremely important PC of our era.
I tend to agree with him, Morph OS was targeted at the ami community, otherwise we wouldn't have it, weather it's called Morph or OS4 or BeOs is irrelevent.  I don't like the way Morph has further split the community up when it's already way to small but hey, it has, it's here is it any good, who knows. I'm going to look at BeOs as it will run on a platform I don't need to shell out for so who knows. The thing is, OS4 is going to keep AMIGAs being made and built, it carries the legacy behind it and tries to maintain it. The H/W  orrigionaly designed was the OS's base, they were designed in tandum to comliment each other and lead to radicle new designs being implemented, even Dave sais it's origional design was so ahead of it's time and helped him florish as an engineer.

I can't claim to be an engineer but I Still marvel at what was achieved at the time, even now things like the antiquated Zorro design still amazes me. It was never dubbed 'Plug and Pray'  as the OS worked with it in a way that PC users are only starting to come to expect. This was the computer we now debate.

The platform may change but the AMIGA, it's the origional OS of choice, the clones, are that, clones of an idea. The H/W like Dave sais when designs are good and are standards, USE THEM. PCI was excelent!, VESA sucked I was horrified because it was in debate with PCI to be the standard. I'm SSSOOOO glad PCI won, because it seemed to be another VHS/BETA scenero but for the PC industry, coming forwards.

 I for one would like to see how much better than the clones and other OSs on offer the new AMIGA OS can be. It's long overdue and people Like Dave H and Carl S are and can be only of benifit to the community, they have all had a major part in keeping this small but continued community together. Remember, they helped make the PC and OS. There would be no community without them and they are still willing to be a part of it, like you just read.
 
They are a wealth of information and ability. This community can only benifit from them in my eyes, ther are the godfather and not grandfather, they still make contributions to the IT world and they are not behind  in ideas, they have a lot of knowledge and think in radicle ways thanks to the amazing work done in Mexico.

I still regard Dave H with awe, he and his are amazing in what they achieved in computing.

Dave, your a legened, and one of the reasons I took an interest to study !

Great Article, thanks!

Now back to the books.   End of personal opinion.....
It's not the question, that is the problem, it is the problem, that is the question.
 

Offline Floid

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2003, 02:12:43 AM »
Thanks, Dave!

Re: The 'historical document' aspect -- that one instance of '2001' is... 1991?

---

When it comes to 'reading' this, I won't pretend to speak for him, but the mention of KOSH should be a flag.  That was/is Fleecy's project (in the sense that it was his focus, I'm not sure where he did or does live with it organizationally), and whether or not it could ever fly - so far it obviously hasn't - you can't say it wasn't an attempt to be forward-looking.  AInc. has kept its sights on the same goalposts (portability, modularity, network-abstraction), even if they keep changing the playing surface and their gear.  [The original 4.0 plan with the Escena AmigaOne was actually the odd duck out, the 'Fine, we give up, let's do what the community thinks it wants' project... Given the dramatic success there, the hobby-hardware approach ended up on the floor anyway, and the much-delayed 4 is of a form that can at least serve a base for an 'AG2' if there's anyone left to write it.  Back to square one, but at least it's a nice, self-righteous square to be at.]

So that's AInc.'s recurring theme.  Genesi's recurring theme, if there is one, seems to revolve around becoming a  a rocking convergence/entertainment company; MorphOS looked like it was going to be "the stable one" up against 4, but as soon as the pressure turned up and the spotlights came on, running everything, or at least the UI (which everything has to touch, especially the sort of conveniences and toys likely to come as untrusted code*) in one memory context became a feature?

Enh, I'm being a jerk. ;-)  But the thing is, AInc. set itself up to at least try to look like an 'OS' (okay, 'runtime,' for a brief period) company.  Barring apparent or actual acts of stupidity, their own plan promotes getting it right and keeping things open (the most dramatic missteps have happened when that's failed, as with the NDA'd-forever SDK updates, or the PR stumble with the 'certification ROMs' and OS bundling**); Genesi are going the 'platform' road, tackling a different and orthogonal set of problems; a few months ago it was improving and lightening the STB space, this week it's saving the music industry, all well and good while nearly unrelated to the design of the underlying OS.  The code just has to be good enough to run the 'platform.'***  

Problem is, if they end up against the wall, they'll be in the same position Apple was in with the CHRP market.****  The services, the XPerience are become the product, the OS is just that thing that makes it happen, and maybe maintains some hacker appeal for people who want to write snazzy demos fast without putting up with current tradeoffs for stability.  [C vs. LISP, anyone?]

---

*All I can say is one compound word, starts with the letters "B-o-n-z..."

**Yes, it sucks that it's cheaper for a strong company to be 'ethical' and able to ignore the impact of piracy.  The corrolary problem is that, right now, the 'name' needs to attract as many people as it can who'll at least *think* of happily exchanging money for goods and services at some point.  If the main intention was to piss off Thendic/Genesi, sheesh, just say it -- "We work on royalties here, call us when you have a platform where a port will be worth more than our development time?"

***I'm trying to use 'platform' to connote the sense of interally developed/organized projects here, in the sense of iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iChat, iBoughtaMacforthisstuff sowhatiftheFindercorruptseverytenthtimeitgoesintosleepmode?  More seriously, I don't see Genesi getting quite as tight as Apple here, but that 'added value' is the fun part to the management.  Which itself is cool and all, a computer is only as useful as the stuff you can do with it, but then you've got guys like me who'd rather not waste any more brain cells on technology unless there's some vague hope of making it set-and-forget.  Both products are evolving, I'm sure the architectural issues will all get touched and shuffled around at some point...

An Apple-type "platform" arrangement does have more 'freedom;' as-demonstrated, you can kick your customers from one OS to another and a majority won't complain as long as the artwork is shinier and iTunes still works.

****But hey, it's not hard to be smarter than Apple, and Genesi have the opportunity here.  Just bundle all the cool 'free' services to the hardware rather than the OS, and let cloners run with it; charge (affordable but profitable) entrance fees for everyone without the hardware-buy season pass, and you're bringing in the dough either way. [Edit to acknowledge that this is, in fact, what Apple's doing right now, except they've figured out how to stick it to their own customers, too.  The Music Store is conceptually orthogonal (ain't that a fun word?) to anything that has to do with OSes, though in practice, they're making it easy on themselves by keeping it limited to platforms with strong DRM.]

Plus, that makes the peons who'll stick with *NIX happy, and convinces them to invest in your platform as open, friendly hardware. ;-)
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2003, 04:01:36 AM »
@ uncharted
> You do regularly.

And you respond to it regularly, wasn't that the point?

 :-D
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Offline Kronos

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2003, 04:36:34 AM »
@red

>The closest I got was Kronos' heckling

My pleasure  :-D


Don't know, but somehow Dave sounds like on of those former 1-hit-wunders
playing his only song in barn-discos to small crowds overand over again.

Everything he touched after C= turned out to be a complete failure
(hope his current company doesn't follow that trend),sohe has only his
old fame to clingon  :-(
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Argo

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2003, 05:28:19 AM »
Hey, you can't force feed someone your point of view. I just can't believe you posted that. Why? cause it's SO cheerleaderish.
Oh, no he called the other Amigaish solutions "wanabees". He seems to have the same lack of knowledge of Morphos as Amiga OS 4.0. The only reason, it looks like, he wants to try Amiga OS 4.0 on the Amiga One is to see how the Amiga Legacy he was part of is continuing on.  He sees that as a straight like of IP ownership sucesssion. His opinion.
He see anything currently Amigaish (ie. the new stuff) as nothing special and only of interest to those in the community. Not to mention at a great disadvantage to be competative in the big wide world of the computer market.
 

Offline Argo

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2003, 05:39:00 AM »
yes, it Dave finds the time and has the interest he will look into it. It seem quite obvious that he's abit out of touch with current Amiga happenings.
 

Offline dammy

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2003, 06:15:31 AM »
Poster: falemagn Date: 2003/10/1 19:20:12

Quote
I completely accept that Dave can have a bad opinion of AROS, but I certainly cannot accept he bases that opinion of faulty assumptions: there's no lack of committment (unless he thinks that to be really committed one should work full time on it), and there's no fear-of-reprisals at all, although I can understand that is what may have appeared by reading some of Aaron's statements some years ago - but that was it all, and they were due to some actions by Amiga Inc. All in all, we're doing pretty well, managing to slowly make AROS grow while running our full-of-other-things private lives.


As I read Dave's post, it seems, atleast to me, he was referring to the time when AROS went underground (in other words, laying low and out of Amiga Inc's sight) when he was dissapointed in AROS after getting excited.  Today, by what he wrote:
Quote
Ok, maybe AROS, now that the seem to actually, finally, have decided that it’s ok to really pursue AROS; I


reads to me that he sees AROS is in a positive light now as he sees it is indeed moving along.  Unless he is not reading threads on TeamONE ML about AROS in the subject line, he is being kept up todate on the major happenings of AROS.  

Dammy
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Offline Glaucus

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2003, 07:37:03 AM »
Overall, a good interview. I too have to agree with his assessment on the OS4/MorphOS issue.

  - Mike
YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE
 

Offline NicoPPC

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2003, 09:22:53 AM »
- My Pegasos/MorphOS can play any Audio CD without problem
- I don't have that much crash (expect if I code a big bug :-) )

There is a problem with Radeon. when moving window (opaque, or big
text scrooling) it distroy the sound when playing. but only with
Radeon, works great with others gfx card (Voodoo, SIS ...)

Well, can you play big Divx with your Amiga :-P

I invite you to test more MorphOS, you will certainly notice it's very
fast ond really like the AmigaOS.

MorphOS is a stable OS, but it's AmigaOS API compatible this implied
no real Memory protection then MorphOS is not robust ( a nasty
software can nuke the system).

But this is the same on AmigaOS 68k, and should be to on OS 4.

Bye
 

Offline falemagn

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2003, 09:39:18 AM »
Quote

As I read Dave's post, it seems, atleast to me, he was referring to the time when AROS went underground (in other words, laying low and out of Amiga Inc's sight) when he was dissapointed in AROS after getting excited.


Actually, I myself have realized that sometime after I made my post, but was too much in doubt and too much sleepy to push the edit button :-)

Well, yeah, re-reading that quote it seems like he actually said we're doing ok now... Sorry.

However, you must agree it's not very clear :-)
 

Offline tintin

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2003, 10:23:26 AM »
Now that's one good interview.  His views are of course just the views of one guy.  He sees things pretty much from a engineering angle.
What I take from the interview is the whole Merlancia "scam" as Dave sees it.  Also interesting is his take on the classic Amiga line.  I don't think there's anybody who doesn't see that the A4000 is not as special as we, or Dave would have wanted it to be, still it's the Amiga I did most work with and it could do all sorts of things the A2000 and A3000 couldn't do.  Today all that is irrelevant.  All classical Amiga's are technology from the past.  Interesting to see that C= would probably have ended up with PCI and other off the shelf components in the longer run.  The future for the Amiga is whatever is coming.  Neither Aone, nor Peg are revolutionary hardware, neither MorphOS nor OS4 are revolutionary OS.   I think, for now, both can be sold only to Amiga fans.  I do see a future though.  Mini and nano ITX seems to be an interesting evolution, a powerPC  based mini/nanoITX plus a small footprint OS makes me see possibilities.  Even if their native OS doesn't make it, both the Peg and Aone will allow for other OS's to run on their hardware.
My position so far is unchanged, wait and see.  And if all goes wrong we always have Aros...
 ;-)
 

Offline Mikey_C

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #73 on: October 02, 2003, 10:25:49 AM »
Quote

What he's lkely be right is that non of these systems is likely to
become mainstream on dekstops. I have heard rumours of some people
'dreaming' on selling 5 Million Neo-Amigas just like that.


Actually JoannaK you shouldn't believe everything you hear on amIRC. Last night on #amigaworld, I was having an argument with tarbos over the Dave Haynie interview.

tarbos claimed that Gerald Carda is a better engineer than Dave Haynie, since he claimed Dave Haynie is a failure. I countered that given the no's of Amiga's that were sold when Dave worked for commodore, that couldn't be the case.

I also went on to say that I *believed* Dave Haynie was also involved in the AGA chipset, and that I *believed* something like 5 million A1200's were sold worldwide. (I think that's about right)

At no time did I say Gerald Carda was a bad engineer, I do not mean to imply he is a failure etc.  I'm sure he is a fine engineer

In my honest opinion, if 5,000 A1's are sold, it will be a miricle. That's 5 thousend not 5 Million.

Just setting the record straight.

Mikey C
YNWA!
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: AO Interview - Dave Haynie
« Reply #74 on: October 02, 2003, 11:21:37 AM »
@T_Bone

Quote
And you respond to it regularly, wasn't that the point?


Not really, I don't post here often enough to.

I think I've asked Kenny why he feels the need to troll a couple of times, only because he never used to be like that. Never got a response though.  I think my last comment was something about Kronos and Kenny getting thier knickers in a twist about the A1 booting OS 4 or something along those lines.

I'm amazed how personally some people have taken it, and how one guy's opinions (and attemps at his reputation) were ripped to shreads, just because they differ.

It will probably die down now, as it seems Wayne et al have managed to turn this into a fine marketing opportunity.

I'm so bored with this.  I'm only really here to talk ideas, not politics.