Amiga.org and Bias

[meerschaum]

@reflect

I'm not calling anyone anything, I'm useing a metaphor... Mike_B consistently insults and wages anti-sentiment against MOS/etc... as he did in his last post before mine... I dont litterly consider an Amiga.inc supporter on-par with a junkie...

He's sitting there throwing little petty insults out...all in the name of 'stopping the trolls' it's so hipocritical it makes me sick...

[DaveP]

Meerschaum

I dont see you slamming Dammy, Kronos, yourself and others doing the same thing about AOS, and worse.

[meerschaum]

DaveP

I dont profess to be 'in the name of peace' and all that bullsh!t ... so I'm not a hipocrit... MB here comes on and talks about how we need to 'make peace' and all that...and throws insults in sideways... so REALLY he dosent want peace/etc... its just BS

EDIT

[Kees]

As i suggested before ... Why don't you try and settle things in private via PM or e-mail ... or just ignore eachother ...

[DaveP]

@Meerschaum

OK so you are not hypocritical about wanting "peace" but frankly that was not exactly the target of my point ( although it has bearing on it ).

If you do not want peaceful coexistence and to be debating the topics in an adult fashion then you are coming here to be combative, and are therefore one of the people that seem to find it perfectly acceptable to let of some cheap shot bomb in the middle of a topic.

Frankly I get it in the neck when I am even slightly less than sensitive about the feelings of MorphOS users and Pegasos owners ( and even those that support them with their mouths but not their wallets ) but tolerate far far worse insensitive comments and cheap shots about Amiga OS4 and Amiga Inc and Hyperion etc.

Now I don't intend to come here to troll, or for revenge, but if you do not learn a little bit more about civil discourse ( and that goes for a few people on here ) expect to get to the point where the line gets crossed and I and a few others will give you a bit of a verbal bloody nose.

Whilst you might get away with your cheap shots, and your digs, I doubt I will get away with mine. So when I do, it will not be a pretty site and I will make damn sure its on as many websites as I can manage along with a canonical posting history of yourself and the usual suspects pointing out exactly where the double standards lie.

Real shame actually, because when you do stop the BS you are one of the more interesting people to talk to on here.

PS: And keep the cheap shots at Amiga products to yourself please.

[meerschaum]

DaveP maybe your failing to get my point, my point is MikeB is as much a part of the problem as anyone else...and if there is going to be any kind of peace...it wont come from one side 'winning' or 'beating the other to death' ... or whatever... its hipocritical for either side to say something like 'this site was great, and then came the infidels' etc etc?... this is an overall community site...not an Amiga.inc site...and not a Genesi site, or an Aros site...its a place for everyone to share...


I asked you in another thread if you where implying people should just 'forget' all misdeeds and move on, although it sounds nice to 'stop bringing that up' there is no ministrey of propoganda on here... and people having memories wont forget.

Peace is a subjective thing, I think the site is plenty tame as-is, sure Amiga.inc gets bashed, so does Genesi, so does everyone else... if peace means censorship I dont want it... because this site has NEVER been about shutting up people who brought up opinons/ideas that where contrary.

[DaveP]

Meerschaum

OK so I get your point now :-)

No, I dont think peope should forget, but there is such a thing as being a total bore on the subject.

I don't want to see censorship, I want to see moderation and that means setting a level of acceptable behavoir and holding people to account over it.

Dave.

[bhoggett]

@uncharted

First it has become apparent that Wayne lied about his impartiality and abused his position here to further an agenda. I was very pissed off with Wayne as I was taken in by his little act.

I think you are wrong. Wayne did develop a dislike for the things happening at Amiga Inc - and I'm sure he's not alone - and he never said he did not have a personal preference.  What he said is that he was running the site on an impartial agenda, and I for one believe he was genuine in this.

Please note that Wayne resigned from Amiga.org before accepting his post at Genesi. He did this for the sake of the site and the community, not his own. After all, he could just as easily carried on running Amiga.org, Genesi employee or not.

Targhan is the only Genesi employee still involved in the running of Amiga.org, and in case you didn't notice, he was pulled short when he stepped over the line.

I think the continued criticism of this site is unwarranted. There used to be a time when people stayed away fom it because it was seen as a place for Amiga Inc "fanboys" only, and people who disagreed were made to feel unwelcome.  I wouldn't want it to return to that, particularly since we already have a site catering for that faction.

Thirdly there are 2 Genesi employees with high positions on here.

There is one. Wayne is only involved as an unofficial "technical advisor". He no longer has a say in site policy, as I understand it.

How would this site be better if it was run by Mike Bouma and his cronies?

I have seen no evidence of political bias. If people get abusive and disruptive, they will be removed no matter who they are. Of that I am certain.

Having said that, perhaps it might be wise for Dave (Targhan) to consider his position with relation to this site. I think him quite capable of moderating in an impartial fashion, but obviously the perception for others will be different simply because he is employed by Genesi.

It's a shame really.

[DanDude]

*holds hand in air*

I will comply.

[Vincent]

I had typed up a reply to this and Opera decided to die, so I'm making this one shorter because I can't be bothered to type it all again.

I agree with uncharted here.

Things have improved recently, but there was a time when flame posts by HMetal and others were getting edited in THE SAME THREAD as flame posts by bbrv.  It was only after complaints by a number of members that bbrv's posts were edited.  And then it seemed grudgingly edited.

One of the few moderators that I've seen here that are impartial is Targhan.  When he became an employee of Genesi he asked us if he should step down as moderator or not.  We all (including some A.Inc fans) said that he should still moderate if he could keep his preferences out of the topics.  Which he has done - either that or I haven't seen any of the problem ones ;-)

I'm an A.Inc supporter (I don't belive things until I have proof from BOTH sides of anything to do with A.Inc OR Genesi - I try to stay in the middle), and I don't like bbrv, well, bb inparticular, I don't think I've actually spoken to rv.  I haven't payed much attention to the Genesi side of things because of my feelings for bb.

After saying that, I would have to admit that Targhan seems to be the most impartial moderator here (of the ones I've actually seen moderate anyway, I was beginning to think the others were made up to make it look good until I saw SlvrDrgn posting recently :-P).  The fact that he's on Genesi's "side" hasn't come through here.

I wish more people were like him.

Now, I'm about to hit the "Go!" button, lets hope it doesn't die this time ;-)

[downix]

@Vincent

Then you're missing out.  

Seriously tho, I didn't like Ben H, but it didn't stop me from analyzing AmigaOS 4, or seeing what the AmigaONE has to offer.  And heck, I work for Genesi.

Note the past-tense regarding Ben H.  I've met him in person, and realized he is not quite the pompus arse he appeared to me as on the boards.  I'm sure if you met Bill B. in similar light, you'd probably change your opinions similarly.

I mean heck, if I can go from wanting to rip Neko's head off, and meeting him in person to find out he's not such a wanker as I'd thought, anything is possible.  

[bhoggett]

@Vincent

I should point out that I have no problem whatsoever with Targhan's moderation. The only time he did step over the line slightly was in posting an editorial as a news item, but that has nothing to do with his role as moderator.

However, some people are using his status as a Genesi employee to attack Amiga.org, and we know that there are people just chomping at the bit to find some reason that proves how evil this place is.

I did see HMetal's posts that were moderated, though not whever it was that may have got him banned. Certainly the posts that were edited were both abusive and personal, and were rightly censored IMHO.

[K]

@everyone

Maybe this will help both sides.

EVERTHING about/related to Amiga sucks.  There is nothing good about it...and never was.
Its old...its like playing Americas Army on my C64

----> Direct anger here<-----

Once both sides have joined sides to annilate this post....we can..... have fun.

k.

[Targhan]

@bhoggett and @Vincent

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I can't really moderate anymore.  It has less to do with my ability to ride the line, and more with the healing process.  The same reason that Wayne stepped down, really.  I held on to the title a little longer, but that was just to help the transition go smoothly.  However, AO would never feel neutral with any Genesi employee in a power-position, regardless of how that person moderates.

While I stepped down some time ago, I guess this is my "official" resignation :-)  Just don't ask me for advice on news-items!

[pixie]

@bhoggett
> This site is continually being accused of applying pro-Genesi censorship,
> which as far as I can tell is not true.

How can you see the other side of the pound if a comment get censored (i.e: deleted)!? Why can't someone decide in their own minds if the comments are off-topic, trolling, some kind of abuse or whatever... why can't them be moderated down like it's done on another sites!?

When MBouma moderate someone elses comment, it was all the shock and horror on ann, because he'd done the only thing a moderator should, moderate it down, the comment was still visible and one could judge if it had the reason to be moderated down or not, more, what was said by the potential troll (or whatever) is still written, so the one who writed it could be viewed as the troll (or whatever) he really was/wasn't, plain and simple!  

How can *I* see others arguments if they get deleted!? Because moderators use their own bias to say so? I rather have my own!

Let everyone have the hability to decide! Damn, where's Seehund when we needed it!? If this doesn't deserve a petition I don't know what will!!  :-D

> I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to see politically
> motivated censorship here, although I do think it is necessary to
> enforce a certain level of civility.

Hitler also thought that way... ;-)

[Kronos]

So now we are down to Godwin's law ?

Modding a comment down just doesn't work with xoops (AFAIK), and it is also no
warranty to stop the thread going OT or down the gutter.

From the comments I have seen before they werte deleted here I can only tell
you that each and everyone deserved it as they added nothing to the ongoing
discussions (actually there were quite a few post more which should have also
gone if it were my descicion), and yes that affected post from both sides.