AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.

[Billsey]

f we don't stop the bullshit and start getting along, there will be nothing left worth fighting over.

Amen, Wayne! Amen!

@Dave (Targhan):
We all misstep—and more than from time to time (speaking from experience ;-) ). Keep your chin up and your temperature down, you'll be back.

[bhoggett]

@pixie

Originality, they don't posess that...

That's a double-edged argument, even more so these days.

Much of the original AmigaOS was NOT original in design, and as time has gone by lots more has been borrowed from other platforms.

Operating system technology evolves. Good ideas spread and bad ones fall by the wayside, that's the way of things. Most people who apply the phrase "the original and the best" to operating systems are talking bollox.

The new PPC generation of AmigaOS will be judged for its qualities alone, not by the achievements of its predecessors.  Similarly, MorphOS and AROS should be judged by how they function, not by how long the history of their brand is.  All three are part of the greater "Amiga community", together with Amithlon, UAE etc. Users of all of these will either learn to get along with each other or the community will finally die. There is no future at all as smaller fragmented communities that reject each other as alien.

P.S. and just to actually touch on the "fragmentation" argument in Webb's editorial:

The deed is done. You can't put the genie back into the bottle. Making MorphOS and AROS disappear won't make all those users return to AmigaOS with their tails between their legs.  Most likely, people would just drift away to platforms with a more stable future and the greater Amiga community would shink even further.  As to who is responsible for the original fragmentation, I think we all have our own opinions. Either way, does the recrimination help anyone now?

The way to combat fragmentation is not by enforcing the "one-party state", but by co-operating and applying common standards, so that users can remain within the Amiga community without having their choices reduced by doing so.

[pixie]

@bloodline:

I'll try to do that, If I still find any problem I'll go trought the usual channels

I do not have nothing against AROS or MOS BTW, I find them both excelent pieces of computer engeneering (they must, they are based on AmigaOS ;b ), what I can't stand is all this bitching... even because people never pick what was said to try to refute it, they always go the easier route  saying you're a troll, you're starting fud or you are a BAF... and this for me is sad.

[Warface]

However, the Amiga market is quite small and all this pretend Amiga can do is fragment it.

Fragment/split the Amiga market... Where have I heard these words... Oh, I remember! It was Fleecy Moss. He was speaking about MorphOS as well.

The only difference was that Amiga Inc then wanted the classic line and the classic AmigaOS to die.

Now? They are chasing Genesi, the Pegasos and MorphOS with the rebadged AmigaONE and OS4 which will arrive some day...

That's what I call the split of the Amiga market. I always wondered how can someone split a market when there is no one else. In a market which was shut down and declared dead by Amiga Inc themselves in the first place.

Wake up. Without Pegasos/MorphOS there wouldn't be AmigaONE/OS4. The beloved past'd be erradicted by now.  If this was a split as you say it, then I'm glad that this split happened.

They deserve thanks for their unbelieveable efforts, not blind hatred in the first place.

That is of course only MY opinion. "Obviously, there are people who don't agree with" me.

[System]

I agree with amigaupdate. I think that to break into fragments such a small market is not good, and to the one that he doesn't like my opinion that he/she drinks water.  
It already tires a little this of the morphos and pegasos.
 aros? I prefers to wait the os5 (at the 2015 I calculate) that amiga will run in the wintel, amd, etc...... Because of that it treats Aros?
 
Amiga inc. it is the one that has give a new Amiga again, and that it is the only reality.

[kd7ota]

Ugh....

Screw it. I'm going back to camp.

*kd7ota pitches a tent and sleeps on all this rubbish.

 :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D

[kd7ota]

@pixie

It seems Trolling and FUD are in everyone tonges for everything today...

Yes,
I agree there too.  Dont know why that term made its way here. But I guess that term will make people feel superior and sound smarter.

[xisp]

@Red-Redentor5
"
Amiga inc. it is the one that has give a new Amiga again, and that it is the only reality.
"

A parallel reality, I suppose.
The only thing resembling a new Amiga today is a Pegasos.
When OS4 is out you can consider AmigaOne a new Amiga in the same way as the Pegasos.
But don't tell me that Amiga Incorporated has helped
in any way to achieve this. From day one until today the only thing they have done is losing money.

They only gave permission and Eyetech-Hyperion
done the rest.

[System]

" They only gave permission and Eyetech-Hyperion
done the rest. "



correct, I know that hyperion/Eyetech is those that make it.    
   
But let us say that Amiga Inc. is the one that impels the project and it grants licenses, this is this way.    
   
As for the AmigaOne, this is already a reality, only awaiting the os4 that I don't believe that nobody already doubts that it will leave.

[MarkTime]

Hi friends,

wow I hardly have time to ramble anymore...so I get to add comment 143 now....lol, well you gotta get up early...geez

Well the person who made the classic 'Amiga Name' argument, doesn't understand....and you all failed to take him to task, for his basic premise.

'Fragmenting' a market doesn't make it smaller.
It's like saying communism worked out great because it was more efficient and didn't duplicate effort.

it didn't work out, and that efficiency equaled 'no jobs'.

Having 30 McDonalds in the same city, is such a waste, why not one really really big McDonald's...ermmm because its inconvenient and that efficiency helps no one...not people trying to get jobs...not people looking for a close McDonald's...and not McDonald's corporation either, for that matter.

OK, now back to Amiga...is MOS 'killing' Amiga.

Well first...NO
2nd...Amiga doesn't have a product to sell, so its IMPOSSIBLE to hurt their revenue stream.
Not having a revenue stream makes them quite immune to fluctuations in the marketplace.

You want me to believe your lamo un-intelligent
knee-jerk thoughtless Amiga Name trolling....well
first at a *minimum*...supply an alternative to MOS.

[AmigaMac]

Well at first I believed that that the blacksheep MorphOS/Pegasos was going to be a bad thing for the Amiga community.  But I have changed my tune these days.  With 2 efforts going, one is surely going to push the other.  I really like the Pegasos and MOS is warming up to me as time goes by.  Genesi and their efforts is a good thing.

 :-D

[amigamad]

Tell me, if I am in line to buy a lotto ticket, then at the last second go "nah, I'll never win." Then you, right behind me in line, buy the winning lotto ticket, the ticket that would have been mine if I had stayed put, do you owe it to me to give me the lotto ticket, since I would have had it if I hadn't walked away?

 

no id tell you to something off as the lotto in this country is done by people picking there own numbers and there is no way you would have picked the same numbers as me. :-?  :-?

[amigamad]

Right now we need this little infighting, to get us tough enough to handle Microsoft. It's like inner-team rivalries, or how martial artist dojo's often times have 2 hot-shots that always are butting heads. Only through the interior conflict can either one emerge strong enough to beat Microsoft.

Your joking neither side will win against microsoft . :-o

[bhoggett]

@gary_c

As discussed in another thread, I don't think the ranking is the place to advertise corporate affiliations. Rankings should be forum-related, either based on number of posts or a forum function such as moderator or webmaster. The signature is the place to state company or organization affiliations. This is the practice in e-mail and web forums generally and makes sense. It keeps the ranking system consistent. [end of ranking rant ]

I couldn't agree more. Please remove "Genesi USA" from the rankings, unless similar status is given to Amiga Inc, Hyperion, Eyetech, even AROS etc (where would one stop?).

This is silly. Put your company affiliations in the signature, and leave the rankings for the purpose they were designed for. Targhan's status as a Genesi employee should be irrelevant on Amiga.org, and his role as moderator, as with any other moderator, should be totally independent of company affiliation or political preference.

If Amiga.org is to retain its objective reputation as Wayne clearly intended when he stepped down, then the moderators must carry out their duties as if they were completely neutral. Anyone who feels incapable of doing so should resign.

note: this is not aimed at any one person, but it's a concern at this point.  I'm sure Kees will carry out his duties impeccably, and I urge the other moderators to follow his example.

[pixie]

I'm not God neither I pretend to know everything, but on these days everyone seems to have or at least be taking some kind degree at bitching at anything that is against their opinion without substantially backing it up, only voice calling.

It's very well pointed by the Editor himself that the editorial and introduction are his thoughts and his opinions alone, and being as such they can't be anything else much less objective, despite having some justifications to back his way of thinking at least way more constructive then all the flames around here...

At least he's the first to agree that people do think different, that many will disagree with him, after all he voice his thoughts as an opinion and not as facts as many of you do, humility that what lacks in this community, this 'mine is bigger than yours' thing is destroying it, and I don't see how an 'objective' webmaster can put in a pro-genesi site such appeal for flaming.

I don't find any of the 'offences' having any substantial claims against what was said, at least I would like to ear from you on this specific subject: how the market will not fragment if auctions from both sides aren't taken by them or from the developers themselves...

If people can't talk the talks why to talk at all!?

[pixie]

@Wayne
These are what I find the main points in Brad's editorial


> Editor's Thoughts and Introduction:

> We were left wondering about some attendees, however. We simply
> cannot understand what the MorphOS/Pegasos team was doing there.
> For that matter, we cannot understand what they are doing at any
> Amiga show.

> There are only two things, both bad, that can come out of the Genesi
> efforts:

> failure for Genesi or depletion of the Amiga market.

> If the Amiga community were huge, it could probably support an
> unauthorized clone system with no problems. That might even lead to
> additional software, since presumably more units would be sold.

> However, the Amiga market is quite small and all this pretend Amiga
> can do is fragment it. We can't understand why any Amiga supporter
> would  want  to encourage that.

> Obviously, there are people who don't agree with us. That's the way of
> the world, there will always be many opinions about most things.

> We only hope it works out well for everyone, especially Amiga.

> We also hope you enjoy this special issue.


As you see Wayne, it has opinion tags all marked all over him, what I do not understand is why shouldn't someone have the right to express himself even more when it is expressed so clearly that it's his own opinion, one certainly have right to use his opinion to fight for what he stands for, if that wasn't the case Princess Diana would be only a Princess, U2 would be just a group and so on...

BTW Wayne, calling "defender" instead of  "cheerleader" isn't any less offensive if the feeling still is the same...