AmigaUpdate, Objectivity Lost.

[dammy]

Poster: strobe Date: 2003/8/12 1:13:26

..oh if only Genesi weren't around...then I could pretend AmigaOS 4 isn't late...

Not quiet, AROS is still out there clawing and scratching it's way into the OS world.  So that alone would remind you OS4 is what, "On schedule and Rock'n" plus two years?

Dammy

[Wolfe]

Amiga Update: Great.

Personal Bias included: Poor Taste. No. Bad!

Shame for shame.

[SlimJim]

Why is a personal opinion (Targhan's) about an editorial
in a news letter put up as some sort of great news item?
The editorial is per definition the view of the editor, isn't it?
Why should his opinions be put up on the wall like this, is it
"news" to invite everyone to trash at his views? I though
flamewars were old hat by now. Oh well.
 
Furthermore, the really news-worthy part of this
newsletter was the very nice, friendly, non-aggressive and
well written AmiWest show report. Why was this
completely edited away from this so-called "news item"? At
least add a link to it and give give this sorry excuse for a
flame-invitation some news value whatsoever.
 
I've never believed in the rumors that this site is going
downhill. I really hope I will continue not to believe
those rumors in the future too.

-edit- I see that at least a proper item has been added
covering the entire news letter, which is good. This one is -
miscellaneous? Oh well. I guess flamewar-invitations are
only a part of Amiga-life.
.
SlimJim

[teo]

Whats the go here? its no different then when wayne abused his position to bash a-inc constantly? let it go people. Its nice and convenient when they are doing for your side so you call it "supporting the platform", irritating when they do it for the the other side so you call it "abusing their position". So what do you do? do you let people voice their opinions like you let wayne voice his or ban opinions people have just because in confilcts with yours.

In fact from reading the comments that started it, id say its quite tame? Id expect the same complaint from mos supporters if a mos show had ainc there and i believe it would be justified... no big deal.

ps, Which of the following is a microsoft OS
1) Microsoft Windows
2) Lindows
Is there a definitive answer? i dont think so because you can argue for both.

now, Which of the following is NOT a microsoft OS
1) Microsoft Windows
2) Lindows
You certainly cant argue that (1) is not. And so it can be argued the same about aos vs mos. Im not saying that morph os is NOT amiga, im just saying that amiga os IS, but solely only because of the name and the trademark rights, and THAT is the only accurate answer you will get. There is no point arguing any further because it doesnt get any clearer when you pick apart feature set so give up people. Put simply you have all been asking the wrong question, i.e. one that doesnt have a definitive answer, only opinions...

[Jose]

@Wayne
".... Brad's comments are certainly no worse than those of some "defenders" (is that term less objectionable than "cheerleader"?) we have had to contend with in this community for a while now....."

I know it's now settled down and I'm glad. But why did you included that? You know very well, the same is appliable to the other camp, and especially you, when you made all those comments about AInc. and then didn't want to back them when asked to. I'm still waiting  to know "The Truth". You know very well that when Amino bought the name and announced AmigaOS dead, and the DE was the future, some people were bitching around others just left. I bitched around in A.Org forums at the time and you, like you've already said, were acting like a cheeleader. Then before joining Genesi you jumped right into the other extreme bashing AInc. You know what, I still distrust AInc and I'm not sure what they would do with the OS if they buy it back, but I haven't gone to extremes about it, but voiiced my opinion.
So you don't need to put tags on all people that have the same opinion about a very particular  subject and say " the defendands" if it's less offensive than cheerleader" or something....  Cheerleader you cannot call me.

[Jose]

I want to know, is cgutjahr still banned?

[Wain]

WHO CARES IF SOME ARROGANT DIP**** HAS HIS OWN AMIGA NEWSLETTER AND DOESN'T LIKE GENESI?

I certainly don't.

Geez, you guys just run looking for any stupid excuse to continue on what will one day be considered the longest, stupidest, flame-war in the history of the internet.

Now we're not even arguing about which product is more "Amiga" (which is a pretty stupid concept in and of itself considering in order to be 'Amiga' you kind of have to be full of proprietary hardware that's been out of manufacture for 10 years now), we're just arguing about whether or not someone has the right to argue to begin with.

So Mr. Webb is self-importent and likes to use his newsletter as his own personal platform for sloughing off his opinion on others, got it.  Now can we please move on to something actually interesting or worthwhile??

[bhoggett]

Wayne wrote:

This community has survived 8 years without Commodore. This community has survived 3 years of Amiga Inc. We have grown up together, we have all had good moments and bad. Now that there are good things happening for the community by way of several available alternative options, it is radicalism and closed-mindedness which is destroying the community that WE built. (NOT Commodore. Not Amiga International, NOT Escom, NOT Amiga Inc., and NOT Genesi). Closed-mindedness is NOT what the Amiga has ever been about. Quite the contrary.

Hear, hear.  There's just nothing more I could add to that.

[lempkee]

i just can't stop loving "brad w"

and hopefully some of what he says here will
be more that just TALKS~!!

instead of talking here , go and download our latest AMIGA DEMO , MENTAL ....

[lempkee]

SlimJim:   GOOD POINT!!!



anyway guys... while u are at it..., download our newst amiga demo ..  MENTAL ...

[JoannaK]

Lempkee: You are sounding like those Aros people..   :-D

Anyhow.. IMHO it would be a lot better that No moderator who's involed into discussion on a thread (or started it) should moderate postings on that thread. There are couple not so nice examples of sites where moderation has been used for thought control and 'goodfacts' generator and I really don't like seeing Amiga.org to become like them.

[bloodline]

All I want is an alternative to Microsoft that feels Amiga like and to play some classic games. If it is AOS then I'll buy it, if it is MOS then I'll buy, if it is AROS then I'll buy it.

You don't have to buy AROS, it's free. A free download will always be available from my site.

-Disclaimer- As long as I can aford to run a site :-P

[mikeymike]

@ JoannaK

Anyhow.. IMHO it would be a lot better that No moderator who's involed into discussion on a thread (or started it) should moderate postings on that thread. There are couple not so nice examples of sites where moderation has been used for thought control and 'goodfacts' generator and I really don't like seeing Amiga.org to become like them.

If you think that is happening here at all, please say something to another moderator or webmaster.  It may seem like an obvious thing to say, or just an automatic "official" response, but I for one thinks that if that were allowed to happen, it would suck considerably, and I would want to do something about it.  Also remember that we can't check and double-check everything, so don't just expect us to notice and do something about it.

[cgutjahr]

@mikeymike:

If you think that is happening here at all, please say something to another moderator or webmaster. It may seem like an obvious thing to say, or just an automatic "official" response, but I for one thinks that if that were allowed to happen, it would suck considerably,

All my contributions to this thread have been deleted and I don't know who did it.

I'd prefer it if moderators wouldn't just "empty" offensive postings, but at least leave their nick (and a specific reason for deleting the posting).
I know I would be very interested to know why my postins have been deleted (after Targhen replied to them first).

Secondly, my last post was edited and the (unknown) moderator added the remark that "this member is not allowed to post on Amiga.org".
I'd like to get some more information regarding this.

-Edit-

And I'd like to have one question answered that coms up in this conext: what is Amiga.org's official policy regarding Genesi employees contributing to the site? This is no attempt to bash Amiga.org (or individual moderators), I'd just like to know.

[xisp]

@People over here
In my long search for neutrality (an incredibly difficult
task) I have come to the conclusion that there are
two main ways an Amigan can become a red troll or
a blue troll.

You become a red troll when you undermine
MorphOS as a valid Amiga alternative. MorphOS
does the same thing as AmigaOS4, but using other
techniques. And this is not an opinion, this is a
simple fact that only blind people cannot see.

(at this point you can call yourself a red troll if you
don't agree with me)

You become a blue troll when you undermine
Hyperion's work. In their quest to achieve a PPC
based OS that is Amiga compatible (the same thing
as MorphOS, if you have payed attention) they have  
made a lot of sacrifices and they deserve respect.
Lets wait for the final result.

(if, at this stage, you think AmigaOS4 is the evil son
of Amiga incorporated*, you can call yourself a
blue troll, because you cannot distinguish between  
Amiga Inc lame decissions, and sacrificed work
from Hyperion and the other programmers worldwide).

You are not a troll if:
a) You think x86 would be a better option. I am
not personally with you but I understand your point.
My view is that x86 faces a technicall wall in a
not so distant future. (They are getting hooooot,
in a bad sense!)

b) You think AROS has no future. You are not a
troll you are plain stupid.

c) You think Amiga Incorporated has had too much
time and opportunities, but you are not obsessed
with it. Their actual influence is nearly disappearing.
This happens when you have no money.

Now, if you think I am biased, please ask yourself:
"What colour I am? "

:-D
-------------------------------------
*Amiga Incorporated == Some people without money.

[bhoggett]

@amigaguy

If MorphOS or AmigaOS are ever really going to prosper then they need to go x86. I'm not saying they should leave PPC all together, but if you want to sell more then a few thousand copies of your OS then you need to look at targeting the 100s of millions of computers out there and there all x86.

Uh, oh. Look out for the brickbats. If my experience in saying this is anything to go by, you'll be flamed and branded an "x86 troll" in no time.

I can understand why Genesi wants PPC. They make hardware and probably couldn't compete if they were making just another x86 board. I understand that, but I just don't see how MorphOS will ever sell more than a few thousands copies.

I share this view, though most MOS supporters do not.

As for AmigaInc? I have no idea why they are going the PPC route.

They are not. However, Amiga Inc are no longer in control, either directionally or financially, so they have no choice but go along with what their partners decide.  As for why Hyperion and Eyetech would nail their colours to the PPC mast, that's much easier to see.

People might fork out $99 to buy AmigaOS or MorphOS, but no one other than a few old and a few thousand of the current Amiga die hards are going to buy a "Special" computer to run it on. No Chance!

Absolutely.  If the "Amiga" (and I'm using the term in the generic sense rather than the trademarked one) is ever to rise in people's consciousness again, it needs to go for as many users as possible. This means embracing all sorts of people and hardware platforms, and dropping the "niche" mentality. Niche systems are all very well, and might even be commercially viable in the short term, but it will be impossible to attract more than a dozen or so developers to such platforms, and without developers there is no software. No software means no users, etc.

It's time to put aside the differences and co-operate. Criticising people for doing things wrong or incompetence is one thing, but criticising them for making a different choice (or worse, for offering a different choice) is sheer bigotry of the kind that has been ruining this community for years.