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Author Topic: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship September 2003  (Read 24894 times)

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Offline System

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #89 from previous page: February 22, 2003, 03:49:46 PM »
@ Zacman

As I stated many times before, the old OF BIOS previously used for the AmigaOne was very buggy and thus caused much delay. Luckily Hyperion has taken care of these problems for Mai.

The AmigaXE motherboards, preferred to by most Amiga users, have been announced for a much later date than March 2002. These boards are currently being tested by quite a few beta-testers and come with a new improved Articia chipset.

I expect and hope that there will be many new enhancements and revisions available with regard to future chipsets. This is IMO a normal and healthy development process, which can also be witnessed within the x86 market.

With regard to delays, I should maybe point out the excellence and experience of the Phase5/bPlan hardware development team. Despite their hardware development expertise they failed to deliver the A/BOX computing solution they announced in 1996 and also suffered various delays with regard to their current Pegasos products.

Mai is a very competent, highly regarded hardware development company, and compared to them bPlan is/was a very small fish.
 

Offline SlimJim

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2003, 05:10:00 PM »
@ the usual suspects
 
I have always wondered if strobe, mips_proc et al were
indeed the ever "clear-eyed" doom-mongering realists/pessimists
that they tend to appear sometimes.
 
In a way it's relieving to now see the lot desperately
defending this announcment, trying to dig out  the positive
aspects of it.
 
Just as the oft-accused "blind followers"
would do, if this were an announcement from the Triarchy.

 
I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not even saying this
announcments haven't some positive aspects worth
bringing forth. That's not my point. Just good to see
you guys react as expected when some unforseen
controversy are suddenly coming your way.
 
But I would like to ask you to consider how your posts
would be phrased if the name 'Genesi' in this announcment
had been replaced with "Eyetech" - or indeed any of the
Triarchy companies.
 
(Mr Gadd never disappoints though - in his own little way -
he at least manages to keep up his attitude on all sides of
the "fence". :-P  )
.
SlimJim
 

Offline ksk

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2003, 05:19:57 PM »
@Senex
"it appears from the various websites
and MLs that the Articia-S is still too buggy to let the G4 perform optimally. "

All I have seen so far is that the A1G4XE beats 2.4Ghz P4...  ;-)   Yes there is a smiley.

Can you provide any link to reveal how badly the G4 performs on the A1?

ahh.. I notised at the end of your post that you did not yet have one.
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2003, 05:29:37 PM »
@ SlimJim

Since I have made a great deal of the posts in this thread, I will propably be one of those "usual suspects". So I will give my view of it.

Quote
But I would like to ask you to consider how your posts
would be phrased if the name 'Genesi' in this announcment
had been replaced with "Eyetech" - or indeed any of the
Triarchy companies.


*IF* Eytech had released the A1 *together* with the OS4 half year ago, I would propably have had it a month or so after it's release. I would have been using it till this day. And if Eyetech then declares that they will make a new, much better computer, and release it in late summer, I would have been very glad. If they at the same time would announce that there will only be a limited numbers of the "old" A1 to be sold until the new computer is released, I would have been somewhat bothered. But not very *much bothered*, since I allready would have had my A1 secured.

A lot of "if"s as you can see. Because that is the only way to compare the two situations. You can not just switch names, you have to look at the accomplishments too!

Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline anarchic_teapot

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2003, 06:11:51 PM »
Quote
the Articia is a disaster.
But I agree proofs should be given for those who don't believe this.

OK, for your proofs you'd better start with me, Ole-Egil and all the others that have been using Articia S on an A1 for the last 10 months.

Know what such a stupid (and untrue) statement says to me? It says "somebody's been such an asshole  - giving out biased half-truths and insulting public statements - with MAI that it's a good bet MAI don't want to deal with them anymore, and now it's fox-and-grapes time"

I wonder how close to the truth this is. I suppose the best indication will be the number of screams of anger this post produces.
AT
 

Offline Senex

Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2003, 06:38:37 PM »
Meanwhile there's an update at href="http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=222&page=32>MorphOS-News.de, confirming the replacement of the northbridge for the new board and that all Pegasos-I-owners can exchange their boards to a Peg-II-board for only 200 Euro, i.e. the price originally planned for the G4-CPU-card upgrade.
 

Offline Herewegoagain

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2003, 06:43:45 PM »
Quote
Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!


Both have delivered something on the hardware side.  Neither are available to the general public who wants to go buy one.  And the number of boards produced by either company is hardly an amount to boast about or reason to claim victory over the other.

Bottom line, they both are yet unavailable to the end consumer, so they are practically at the same status, regardless of who is further along in development or not.  Neither has an advantage right now, other than personal preferences.  It really IS as simple as that!
North and South Carolina Users interested in a \\\'local\\\' user group should visit NCSC Amiga Users Group page and sign up for membership. It\\\'s free!
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2003, 06:44:09 PM »
(I posted this on ANN first, but as we're seeing the same "positive spin" here, i figure it's worth a repost.  Of course, the debate here is a LOT more civilized than ANN...)

Well, well, well…

After months of putting up with the MOS camp followers ridiculing every delay with the AmigaOne/OS4 we finally get to see the truth behind the scenes of the Righteous Followers of Thendic. It is all so clear now that the torrent of abuse that Hyperion and Eyetech have had to put with the relentless stream of attacks was to deflect attention away from problems with the rival product. To quote from Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

Please refresh my memory… who were these people gloating over the AmigaOne delays? Oh yes, I remember: Max, Senex, David Scheibler, Stobe, Mahan, Chessegrate, Nicolas Sallin and a handful of others. Surprisingly, it’s the very same people who are now defending this sad Pegasos announcement and doing their utmost to turn it into another attack on Eyetech/Hyperion.

"This is good news!!!", they cry.
"Bollocks!!!", we all shout back.

"You’ll be able to trade your P1 for a P2 they cry.",
"Pegasos 2?", we ask, "Is that like a BoXeR 2?"

Why should we believe them? These are the same people that told us that there was no "Mai without April" (Apparently, as far as the Pegasos goes, there’s no Mai with it either), they told us that the A1XE couldn’t use a G4, they told us it couldn’t use a dual G4 module, they told us Amiga Inc had gone bust, they told us OS4 had stopped development,…. And best of all, they told us that the Pegasos 1 would have G4 and dual G4 cards (remember, the AamigaOne wouldn’t – big selling point).

Sorry guys. Your credibility is now ZERO, zip, bugger all. Kindly stop trying to put a positive spin on this because you can. Stop attacking Eyetech over this – it’s not their problem. Stop attacking Ben over this – he’s not responsible.

I must admit that I have been very impressed with the way that the Pegasos was being marketed by Bill Buck. He’s done wonders at pushing this product, defending his position on newsgroups, attending the shows and striking deals to get developers on board in order to produce software. I view his press announcements in the same way I view Amiga Inc’s – Overly positive because it’s his job to SELL and PROMOTE his product over the competition. No-one puts out a press release to slag their wares. In the same way, I can accept this announcement in the same way that Eyetech have had to pass on bad news to their waiting customers. However, to say that Thendic are blameless for peddling a product advertised as being able to accept an announced G4 module and then turning around and saying “sorry” is just not on. You can argue that Thendic have been good enough to provide a cheap upgrade to the Pegasos 2, but that’s not a work of kindness from Thendic – it’s simply the very LEAST they could do. Quite simply, the Pegasos 1 has been marked under false pretenses with regards to G4 and this offer simply covers Thendic from people demanding their money back. Of course, it doesn’t make up for the fact that these G4 modules were supposed to be available and on sale.

#### happens in this industry. Delays happen, problems arise and hardware fails. The original AmigaOne was lost well before the waiting public were told it had been flushed down the toilet and I personally purchased an Elbox Tower for my A1200 to house one when the people behind the scenes already knew it wasn’t going to be released. I can accept this. I can accept the Pegasos 1 project going to hell over discovered problems and I think it’s excellent that there will be a (better) Pegasos 2. What I can’t stomach is the mindless morons that think it’s OK for this to happen to Thendic, but when it happens to Eyetch then they deserve to by crucified. Two faced hypocrites!!!

Enough of this rant. To Pegasos 1 owners: I hope you get your upgrade to the Pegasos 2. To those people who ordered a G4 Pegasos 1: Time to change your order to an AmigaOne XEG4. To those people waiting for the Pegasos 2 – better make yourselves comfortable…

One lesson we can all learn from this is to stop attacking the "other side", because it’s not funny when the situation turns around and bites you on the ass. Plus, if you do insist on going on the offensive then don’t cry like a baby when you find yourself subjected to a full counter-attack.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline System

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2003, 06:54:46 PM »
@ takemehomegrandma

Quote
Genesi has delivered. Eyetech+Hyperion has not. As simple as that!


I disagree, IMO neither the AmigaOS4 team nor the MorphOS team have delivered a satisfying end user solution yet. (Also note that the AmigaOS4 project was started years after the MorphOS project)

For the amount of Genesi products currently available on the market and for the near future, I can only look at the current solution as a temporary "development platform". Not an enduser product available in acceptable quantities.

Both the AmigaOneG3-SE and PegasosG3 have been available to general consumers. However I believe it is also important to ask, what solution does the average Amigan really want? Polls show that an AmigaOne-XE in combination with AmigaOS4 is a much more popular solution than a Pegasos/MorphOS solution.

So even if a MorphOS/Pegasos solution would have been widely available, for many Amigans the product they desire still wouldn't be delivered.

Take me for example, I like MorphOS. But I greatly prefer AmigaOS4 and if I would have to choose a secondary OS available for the AmigaOne platform, I would still greatly prefer LinuxPPC over MorphOS. To be honest, I would even be more interested in a new Umilator for my PC and laptop, than MorphOS available for the AmigaOne.
 

Offline zacman

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2003, 06:56:07 PM »
>OK, for your proofs you'd better start with me, Ole-
>Egil and all the others that have been using Articia
>S on an A1 for the last 10 months.

Wait. Are you telling me that you had ten months the
machine and did not find the first bugs which then
later need to be fixed in the A1 SE and neither found
the bugs that have been fixed in the new Articia S
revision? Is that what you*re telling? 10 months?
Wow.
 

Offline Herewegoagain

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2003, 06:57:07 PM »
Well, I hope that Genesi puts an extra ROM socket on the Pegasos II.  (Are you listening Genesi??  ;-) )

There are those who will want it, and as long as you are redesigning....might as well provide for that too!
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Offline Skyraker

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2003, 08:13:06 PM »
As Eyetech have the distro rights on these boards... i'm speculating (no proof) that maybe, just maybe Redhouse has been leaning on MAI to encourage them not to supply Genesi with the chips.....

... as i said just speculation, but it begs the question as to why Eyetech can get these chips and Genesi cannot....

What do you think?
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Offline Senex

Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2003, 08:23:39 PM »
Quote
the question as to why Eyetech can get these chips and Genesi cannot...


Well, regarding Genesi's latest statement it's not a matter of not getting them, but of not wanting them because of further bugs...
 

Offline System

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2003, 08:53:10 PM »
Well WindowsXP don't use ArticiaS's  :-D , and use Microsoft to make contrast with Genesi  :-? , i hope you don't do this with "WinXXXX vs MorphOS"  ;-) .
 

Offline System

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2003, 09:04:52 PM »
Quote
Well, regarding Genesi's latest statement it's not a matter of not getting them, but of not wanting them because of further bugs...


Personally I highly doubt this. The executives of Terra Soft, Eyetech and Mai were not at all happy with Bill's FUD approach with regard to their efforts.

Sadly his latest update contains yet again similar misleading FUD...

"Our G3 Pegasos performs better than the G4 Teron with the Articia. "

For instance I know that the PegasosG3 performs similar to the AmigaOSG3-SE (Linux). So I have my severe doubts about i.e. a G4 AmigaOne-XE or Teron board performing worse than a G3 solution at similar clock rates. ;-)

At the same clock frequency the G4 already has a much better floating point perfomance. Additionally, with regard to Altivec optimised software, there will often be very significant additional performance gains.  :-)
 

Offline System

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Re: Pegasos to go on sale Monday / Pegasos II to ship Septem
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2003, 09:11:32 PM »
My thoughts on this are that no product should be advertised as "obsolete" or "soon to be replaced" for any reason. It's good that they are looking forward to the next design, but that should be transparent to the end user. When the PegasosII is nearing a presentable stage, then it should have been announced that the original Pegasos would be phased out

And then a Zillion of retarded users will start to call BBRV a liar.