Amiga 2000HD - VS - Atari Mega4 ST

[Zadoc]

Back in the 8-bit days (C=64 vs Atari 8 bit like the 800XL) I was an avid Atari fan with Commodore being the 'arch-rival'.  Back in those days the comparisons/competitions were close between the two machines.

When the 16-bit giants entered I balked at the Atari's offering...the Amiga wiped the floor with it.  Undeniable to even a devout Atari fan (and C= basher, back then) like myself.

The OSes, as mentioned, were worlds apart in fluidity with TOS being a kludgey, non-multitasking nightmare compared to Workbench.

The Amiga's OCS/ECS chipsets delivered rich 4,096 color HAM graphics as opposed to the ST's feeble 16.

The only advantage the ST had in my opinion was the inexpensive 1040 and 520 ST models which were (at least before the release of the Amiga 500) far cheaper than the A1000.

Arguably, this made those little machines ideal for the music field, being inexpensive and coming with MIDI as standard ports.

The MegaST was Atari's attempt at big boxing these machines, and in my opinion, was not anywhere near as usefull as the A2000 was at it's time (which in a sense, was a big box version of the A500).

The higher clockrate (8MHz vs the A500/A2000's 7.14MHz) 68000 did little to improve software performance.

Finally, the A2000 is a far more expandable machine as well.  If you really juiced it out, you could have an 060, SCSI, graphics card, ethernet, and even USB onboard.  I'd like to see an Atari MegaST come anywhere close to those specs...even the Atari Falcon only made it to the 030 cpu, and I think only the ST clone Hades is the only 060 based Atari compatible out there.  Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know a heck of alot about the ST line of Atari computers.

[CU_AMiGA]

I quite liked Atari ST. Although for me, the sound output was a bit tinny compared to Amiga's Paula! :-)
Is it possible to emulate an Atari ST on Amiga?

[Zadoc]

Is it possible to emulate an Atari ST on Amiga?

Yes...but I've had no luck so far with any of the emulators I've tried due to the fact that aside from the Falcon series (and Hades 060 clones) the Atari ST line never made it past the 68000 cpu - where as an accelerated Amiga chokes either the emulators or the TOS (I can't recall which is the case).

Even trying to get the ST Emulators to run under UAE as a plain A500 I've had no luck.

There were also a few hardware based ST emulators if I remember correctly too, but these probably would be really difficult to find secondhand.

[amigamad]

Neither there both crap. :-o  :-o  only joking  :-D

I had an atari 520stfm once it was faster than an a500 but was crap for ram upgrades and sound was not as good.I liked it though and micrprose grand prix was  faster on the atari than the amiga and the graphics were the same.


There both great machines . :-)

[CU_AMiGA]

Zadoc wrote:

Is it possible to emulate an Atari ST on Amiga?

Yes...but I've had no luck so far with any of the emulators I've tried due to the fact that aside from the Falcon series (and Hades 060 clones) the Atari ST line never made it past the 68000 cpu - where as an accelerated Amiga chokes either the emulators or the TOS (I can't recall which is the case).

Even trying to get the ST Emulators to run under UAE as a plain A500 I've had no luck.

There were also a few hardware based ST emulators if I remember correctly too, but these probably would be really difficult to find secondhand.

So is there any ST emus (programs) about that can be downloaded for the Amiga? I have seen a few ST hacks on Aminet net but that isn't what i was looking for. I have used some ST emus on PC but it would be interesting to see if there are any about. Surely it is possible, they share the same processors, like the MAC and that gets emulated.

I would like to see some of the games that were made both for the ST and Amiga to see how they compare. Especially some of the earlier games. I think that Stunt Car Racer made for the ST was a that little bit faster than the Amiga version due to the slighty better processor. Well, anything before A1200, A3000 and A4000!

[amigamad]

amiga 500=7.14mhz
atari 520stfm=8mhz

Atari fans should try this site http://www.atari.org/ :-)

[Calen]

The higher clockrate (8MHz vs the A500/A2000's 7.14MHz) 68000 did little to improve software performance.

Indeed,  the sound chip IMO was terrible compared to the mighty Paula and that tiny bit of extra CPU time was not gonna make the difference when you started using sampled sounds, that took CPU time. The C64 even had things the ST didnt, eg: hardware scrolling .

I had an STE for a very short time, never liked it, glad i got rid of it.
 
-edit  errr oh umm be quiet Calen :-)

[CU_AMiGA]

Calen wrote:

The higher clockrate (8MHz vs the A500/A2000's 7.14MHz) 68000 did little to improve software performance.

Indeed,  the sound chip IMO was terrible compared to the mighty Paula and that tiny bit of extra CPU time was not gonna make the difference when you started using sampled sounds, that took CPU time. The C64 even had things the ST didnt, eg: hardware scrolling .

I had an STE for a very short time, never liked it, glad i got rid of it.
 
-edit  errr oh umm be quiet Calen :-)

Apart from the sound, the ST wasn't really all that bad. The games between the ST and Amiga were comparable and similar. Maybe the ST would have been better off with the SID chip! Didn't the ST use the same sound chip as the one found in a ZX Spectrum 128k?

[CU_AMiGA]

A GREAT PHILOSEPHER ONCE TRULY SAID "THE ST WAS A POOR MANS AMIGA"

[Zadoc]

The games between the ST and Amiga were comparable and similar.

This is partly because when the ST and the Amiga first hit the market, games were usually written on the ST and then ported to the Amiga.

The Amiga's graphics capabilities were far better than what the ST could produce.  Had the games been coded specifically for each machine, we'd have seen a greater difference.

Back to expandability again, another Atari ST shortcoming was a barrier of 4Mb of RAM on the 520/1040ST as opposed to the 8Mb possible on the A500...Not that many games ever tackled that much RAM, but another superiority in the Amiga's corner.

[Kronos]

@Zadoc

8MB max

Nononno ........

1MB internal if you played by the rules (512k chip,512k slow), +8MB external.

With a bit of hacking you could get 2MB chip 8 fast and ~1.8 slow, summing
up to nearly 12MB (with the standard 68000).

Max for A3000/4000 is 1818MB btw,but you just won't find any cards to
stick that onto.. :-x

[Zadoc]

With a bit of hacking you could get 2MB chip 8 fast and ~1.8 slow, summing
up to nearly 12MB (with the standard 68000).

Well, I did mean with a memory expansion.  My GVP SCSI sidecar has some SIMM slots in it that accomodates up to 8Mb.

I haven't heard of a possible way to expand a 520/1040 ST (comparible to the A500's case) past 4Mb.

[Kronos]

@Zadoc

Yes,but that would still add up to 9MB,not 8  :-P  :-P

[amigamad]

A GREAT PHILOSEPHER ONCE TRULY SAID "THE ST WAS A POOR MANS AMIGA"

But software  was faster on the atari grand prix was definately smoother and faster than it was on an  amiga 500 .i gave my st away but it was a nice machine . :-)

[Calen]

But software was faster on the atari grand prix was definately smoother and faster than it was on an amiga 500 .i gave my st away but it was a nice machine .

I have played both and your are right but could you run it in 60 hz mode?  that made a difference of course, the sound also was alittle better,  perhaps less samples on ST to keep frame rate up

Dang i loved that game.

[JimS]

Zadoc wrote:
Back in the 8-bit days (C=64 vs Atari 8 bit like the 800XL) I was an avid Atari fan with Commodore being the 'arch-rival'.  

Sounds like we were in the same boat. Back then I was a big Atari 8-bit fan.. even started and ran the local Atari Usere' Group.  I felt the 64 was garbage :-) cheaply made, but popular with the masses who valued price above quality.  When the Mac, Amiga and ST came out...  Well the Mac was out because it was too expensive and B&W only.  The Amiga had a better OS than the ST, better graphics, was genlockable, and was generally 'cooler'  no choice...  So, I gave up my user group and went Amiga, and took some good-natured ribbing... and gave some.

"nostalgia isn't what it used to be"