Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?

[jedi]

@catohagen

"I would say Mos is still 5-6 months away before its
available to Joe Public."

You, guy, can you say me when AmigaOS4 will be fully available on AmigaOne to Joe Public ?... ;-)

Seriously, Pegasos with MorphOS 1.0 will be available to everybody at the Amiga+Retro Computing 2002 (in December as promised some months ago).

Of course it will be a 1.0 version, and like other OS (Windows, MacOS,...) there will be still some bugs, like AmigaOS4 when it will be available... (or AmigaOS 1.0 in 1985 ;-))

An Operating System on a Computer is NEVER finish...

[System]

@Mike:

As there are no native AmigaOS 4 applications for now yes indeed it's hard to be compatible with them. In fact the "AmigaOS 4" we see in the screenshots isn't compatible with these applications too (which is in fact an AmigaOS 3.x with some components planned for AmigaOS 4)

[Senex]

It is very unlikely that MorphOS would run native AmigaOS4 applications anytime soon.

Who cares? It will still take a long time until OS4 will run on the AmigaOne (and therefore for OS4-only apps). Just because integrating the 68k-emu and all the different components takes much time and reveals many new problems. Just look at the progress the MorphOS-team made - they as well needed very much time for these steps.

And if you'd need such a OS4-application really badly, you could still code an A4-Box for MorphOS.  ;-)

[System]

Hello,

"Who cares? It will still take a long time until OS4 will run on the AmigaOne (and therefore for OS4-only apps). Just because integrating the 68k-emu and all the different components takes much time and reveals many new problems. Just look at the progress the MorphOS-team made - they as well needed very much time for these steps."

Yes indeed and I would add: Look at the development time of other OSes like Linux, Windows, MacOS, MacOS X, OpenBeOS...etc
You can see that even when the OS is ready (I mean everything is running together and almost complete, which is even not the case of AmigaOS 4 today), the betatesting period is at least of 6 months and even 1 year.

 The public betatesting period of the Jaguar update of OS X (I just talk about complete builds betatesting) have taken one year, and it's just an update for OS X 10.1 which is nothing compared to a complete port that need kernel rewrite and some other parts rewrite like OS 4. The same can be said for every OSes on the market.

So according to what we see in the computing industry as soon as the first complete build will be ready for betatests, Joe Users will still have to wait at least 6 months or 1 year because of the needed betatesting period.

Regards

[MarkTime]

As there are no native AmigaOS 4 applications for now yes indeed it's hard to be compatible with them. In fact the "AmigaOS 4" we see in the screenshots isn't compatible with these applications too (which is in fact an AmigaOS 3.x with some components planned for AmigaOS 4)

Amiga, Inc....with all the usual disclaimers about this confusing company....shipped OS 3.9.

It supports PowerPC expansion boards, but I think most people consider the first Amiga PowerPC OS, to be OS 4.0.

I don't think it does the MOS camp much good to deride beta software as being buggy,  problematic, with uncertain release dates.  All these things may be true, but MOS is also still in beta.

It is a solid argument, to only consider shipping software, but if we must do that, then only Amiga, Inc. has a shipping os, that OS being 3.9.

I don't think any of us want to do that, however, as we want to compare PowerPC os's and that by necessity means being forward looking and examining beta software that is not in general release.

I don't really care that the beta testing circle is slightly larger in one camp than the other, the fact is I cannot buy either one...and so, I will have to compare these softwares, both of which are unavailable to me currently.

And as I look at things, MorphOS, which has yet to be released, and therefore is over a year behind in being even OS 3.9 compatible, is not looking like its going to be OS 4.0 compatible anytime soon, maybe in MorphOS 2.0???

Its an important question, though I don't doubt there is inherent difficulty in being compatible with an OS that hasn't been released....nevertheless, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

My problem as a consumer, is buying hardware and software that isn't going to be incompatible and leave me out in the cold when I want to run my favorite Amiga OS PowerPC applications.

Maybe someday I will say I want to run my MorphOS applications, but not today, and I'm not convinced by only the tiniest smattering of developers that MorphOS is the way for me....tales of tamar?? who cares....maybe its a good game, but I hardly care, there will be good games for Amiga OS 4 too.

You'll have to do so much better than that....I am glad you are working on it, and if you succeed, again, I will be there with you....but its no time to celebrate, thats for sure.

If I have to predict, you will fail.  The various amiga companies have certainly failed themselves enough times, but all of the would be usurpers have done, by and large, even worse.

[Senex]

beta software that is not in general release

But will be in - oops, that famous quote - "two more weeks" in Aachen on Dec. 7/8th, while of OS4 currently just the kernel is running on the AmigaOne.

So, again: we were - nitpicking of exact dates aside - just talking about the fact that MOS is ahead of OS4 and that therefore it's a legitimate reasoning for many people to choose from two (except for the name) absolutely comparable products the one hitting the market significantly earlier.

want to run my favorite Amiga OS PowerPC applications

As was said, there won't be - if at all - any OS4-only versions of your favorite applications in the near future. And all the other stuff, including Power-Up and WarpOS PPC software, is running on MorphOS already.

So maybe a better approach would be to have a look at your current favorite applications in detail and see if you could still run them on Pegasos / MorphOS.

For example some programs I have mainly used are Voyager (runs, even a MOS-version is available), Microdot-2 (same here), Miami (runs), MakeCD (runs very well - and faaast), FinalWriter97 (okay, has currently a little refresh prob, but that will certainly be fixed till the consumer release), etc. pp.

To make it short: Since I have my Pegasos, I just continued to use all my favorite software as I've been used to. Just faster. While on the AmigaOne I'd still need Linux-UAE for some time...

[Herewegoagain]

As was said, there won't be - if at all - any OS4-only versions of your favorite applications in the near future. And all the other stuff, including Power-Up and WarpOS PPC software, is running on MorphOS already.

See, this is the kind of thing that just keeps coming from the MOS supporters.  You perport to know the very details of when OS4 will be available and even as to what PPC applications are going to be available.  Truth is, you don't know either of the two things you just stated as fact.  But you figure that by stating so adamantly that it is the truth, you will make people suddenly say "Oh yeah, now I see MorphOS is the way"

So glad that you can predict the future so well.  I have no problems with people who want to use MOS, but stop trying to convince the rest of us that it is the next Amiga.... It simply is NOT.   I don't care how "Amiga-Ish" it is, or how much in "spirit" it is.

[Senex]

I don't care how "Amiga-Ish" it is, or how much in "spirit" it is.

In opposite to your opinion about me this is no problem for me - everybody has his very own opinion and that's fine.

I just don't like if people are said to be be no Amigans anymore just because they favour an absolutely amigaish product that just doesn't have "The Name".

And reagarding OS4 release dates: I think it's too obvious that of course I don't know when it will be released. But as I mentioned above my estimation is an educated guess from comparing the time the MorphOS-team needed.

Okay, enough for today, I'm leaving for home.

[System]

Hello,

"You perport to know the very details of when OS4 will be available"

You don't need to know exactly what is going on at Hyperion to see that OS 4 can't be available for March 2003.
It's just a matter of rationality and a bit of software development experience or observations.

As i've already said in a previous post, but you must have not read it, all the other OSes on the planet had a full builds betatesting period of at least 6 months and most of the time it's 1 year.
Full build betatesting means betatesting of completely built OS (also known as final betatests) so this happen AFTER betatesting of each elements by themselves.

As i've already said, OS X 10.2 (codenamed Jaguar) which is only an update for OS X 10.1 (Puma) had an external (so made by external people, and so after the internal betatests) final betatesting period of 1 year (again final betatesting == complete build betatesting). And it's just an update for OS X 10.1, which is nothing in term of work compared to OS 4.
As OS 4 is also an OS and so also a software it'll also need external final betatests.
Don't tell me this has already started, as at the WOA SE no complete build were ready yet and even if there is one now, that would mean we have to wait 6 months or 1 year before the consumer release if we consider they start the external final betatesting know.
And you don't need to be very good in maths to see that today+6months (at least) does not equal to March 2003

As you can see, here I just used real facts from the industry and from the official status of OS 4 at the WOA SE show. I've not used any kind of things that are not real facts.
So here it's not a prediction of the future, it's just using verified facts to make you realize that there is some things in the life that are simply not reasonnably possible. Or maybe OS 4 Team is so good that they can even be better than any other developpers team in the past?
I don't think so

Regards

[cdfr]

"See, this is the kind of thing that just keeps coming from the MOS supporters"

Yes AmigaOS supporters only tell truth while MOS one are always lying.

"I have no problems with people who want to use MOS, but stop trying to convince the rest of us that it is the next Amiga.... It simply is NOT. I don't care how "Amiga-Ish" it is, or how much in "spirit" it is. "

LOL Basically you say: Don't try to convince me something because I'am just trying to convince the exactely opposing thing.

However I'am sure you never tried a Pegasos while some of the people that are writing here write from their Pegasos.

Maybe some of us really care how Amiga it is.  :-D

[System]

@BBRV

WHAT? a contract is under NDA?!?!? My theacher of civil law will burn me alive like a witch if I ever *think* such a thing!!!  :-o  :-o

a contract is always a PUBLIC DEED, and therefore can be requested/viewed/published by anyone interested in the matter of the contract!

Clauses of NDA for contracts are outlawed by EU laws. Simply they doesn't exists. The reason is: the commons have the right to prevent actions - sanctionned by such contracts - that may cause harm to them or to the public.

 So, Ben Hermans can publish it here without any worries about penalties. Usually trials take a very looong time here in europe...   :-D  :-D

dear BBRV, change marketing tactics, please. If you ever want to sell your pegasos to me, then ship amigaOS on it. Stop.

[dammy]

Poster: loki77 Date: 2002/11/25 13:51:19

@BBRV

WHAT? a contract is under NDA?!?!? My theacher of civil law will burn me alive like a witch if I ever *think* such a thing!!!

a contract is always a PUBLIC DEED, and therefore can be requested/viewed/published by anyone interested in the matter of the contract!

Clauses of NDA for contracts are outlawed by EU laws. Simply they doesn't exists. The reason is: the commons have the right to prevent actions - sanctionned by such contracts - that may cause harm to them or to the public.

So, Ben Hermans can publish it here without any worries about penalties. Usually trials take a very looong time here in europe...

dear BBRV, change marketing tactics, please. If you ever want to sell your pegasos to me, then ship amigaOS on it. Stop.

First of all, I think you owe an apology to those of Wiccan faith for such an unkind reference to their pursecution/genecide by Christians.

Second, aren't NDA's also covered by copyright laws, even in the UE?

Third, got a URL for the EU code or EU case law that supports your anti-NDA statement?

Now cheer up and be happy.  :-D

Dammy

[MarkTime]

I have no problems with people who want to use MOS, but stop trying to convince the rest of us that it is the next Amiga.... It simply is NOT. I don't care how "Amiga-Ish" it is, or how much in "spirit" it is.

I remember met@box, and their campaigns on comp.sys.amiga.misc to win the mindshare of the amiga community.  It was tough going, Gateway was a big serious company and while they never understood the community, people gave them the benefit of the doubt.  And met@box was entirely vapor.

Still metabox had Dave Haynie, amiga celebrity, and Dr. Kitel both doing a fairly good job of explaining their position.  In the end I think they did not grab the majority of mindshare.  Not that it mattered, they never shipped anything and the mindshare issue never came into play.

I supported the company that in one form survived, Amiga, Inc.....and not the one that failed, but looking back on it, I don't think the right company survived.  I hardly am amazed at my own cleverness, in hindsight.

But, even still....Amiga, Inc. is moving along, if only at long last.  Probably in large part, thanks to pegasos competition....DE is proving to be a viable commercial product, they allowed 3.9 to be released, and finally, the hardware part, is about to ship of the ng amiga.

So they don't suck completely, but I am much more inclined to listen to this upstart than I ever would listen to an upstart before.

And I think we should be thankful that Amiga, Inc. did not work with the pegasos group.  Had that partnership developed, I just know that all parties involved would be sitting on their hands waiting for 'perfection' before doing anything.

Its so gutsy for morphos to be released in november.  I'm sure its crap, but the significance of
it being released, I think is important.  Amiga and Genesi in genuine competition ?  I don't know if Amiga plays their cards right, they can blow away MOS like Windows to OS/2...and MOS doesn't even have the luxury of claiming to be technically superior....

but if they don't, I am glad that MOS will be there to fill the void, and you know what, its entirely possible, that a term encompassing Amiga and Amiga compatibles can be coined....oh joy, you know what, I'm going to start thinking of that right now....

[dammy]

Poster: MarkTime Date: 2002/11/25 15:19:15

I remember met@box, and their campaigns on comp.sys.amiga.misc to win the mindshare of the amiga community. It was tough going, Gateway was a big serious company and while they never understood the community, people gave them the benefit of the doubt. And met@box was entirely vapor.

Still metabox had Dave Haynie, amiga celebrity, and Dr. Kitel both doing a fairly good job of explaining their position. In the end I think they did not grab the majority of mindshare. Not that it mattered, they never shipped anything and the mindshare issue never came into play.

Actually, PIOS/Met@Box did ship Mac CPU cards.  The PPC side of Met@Box was spun off to the USA (Texas) funded by Dave Haynie, until the idiots in control back stabbed him.  Oh well, that's how the tech companies go flush...



Dammy

[Herewegoagain]

LOL Basically you say: Don't try to convince me something because I'am just trying to convince the exactely opposing thing.

Absolutely not true.  I could care less if you want to use MOS or Linux or any other OS.  That is a matter of your own taste.  But I'm sick of the spam threads from MOS supporters trying to imply that they are the true next Amiga.  Simple as that!  Go support your MOS, use it, be happy with it.  That's perfectly fine with me, just quit trying to get it supported by riding on Amiga's coat tail.  Let it stand as a product of it's own merit.  It will ultimately succeed or fail by that alone.

[System]

A NDA is a *contract* like any other. Use good sense, please.  

I just wanted to say that it's forbidden by EU laws to put in a contract any clause that forbid one or both parts to make that contract public. And penalties for violation of such that clauses don't apply, of course.  If i ask a copy of that contract to B.H., he can give me it without worrying about Genesi's "retaliations".
(And it's perfectly lawful to publish that contract on the web.)

About case law...EU is not based on common law like your country. Is based on civil law. A case law doesn't rule for future cases, it'is a case judged by the civil law rules.

About urls, i always suppose that google is your friend in any post I make.

Hint: search for Treaty of Rome, Treaty of Amsterdam, and any EU country's civil code.

Wiccan? what are those? a kind of rascals?  :-D  :-D  :-D

Per gli italiani: la clausola di NDA su contratti e' una *clausola vessatoria*. Tali clausole sono *nulle* per legge. Cfr. codice civile.