Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 announced

[samface]

The court
decided that such use of ROMs for emulation is legal.

...so long as it does not infringe upon the original vendor's intellectual property rights.

Exactly. The EULA of 3.1 doesn't mention anything
against emulation, only about illegal copying.

Please, AmiGR. I've already done my homework on this one so don't even try. There are specific laws regarding the use of ROM's that applies *regardless* what the EULA says. The EULA is *not* what decides wether something is infringing on the IP or not.

[AmiGR]

A court case proved that the law DOES NOT APPLY
TO THIS USE OF THE ROMS. So why do you keep
repeating the same thing while it's DEAD obvious?
The "specific laws" were proved not to apply in that
case, so it does not infringe the IP rights of the
original vendor.
So neither the IP is infringed nor the EULA is broken.
That was my point. What is YOUR point?

Oh, and about the specific case (the MOS one) don't
even try... I know MUCH more that you think about
this one...

[samface]

A court case proved that the law DOES NOT APPLY
TO THIS USE OF THE ROMS.

MorphOS may technically use it the same way as the A-Max but as they are using this for their competing product to the AmigaOS (which the ROM is a part of) then it is per definition infringing on their IP. It's actually simple logic. I mean, it's just like if you would take the exterior of a brand new sportscar, put it on your old Ford and then sell it as a next-generation Ford called "morphord". You don't think that would be infringing on Ford's IP?

The "specific laws" were proved not to apply in that
case, so it does not infringe the IP rights of the
original vendor.

I can't believe you actually managed to miss my point despite all of my bold wordings and all... *sigh*

Anyway, here we go again; MorphOS infringes on Amiga Inc.'s IP by using their ROM for their *competing* product. The AmigaROM is Amiga Inc.'s intellectual property and may not be used by a product that is a competing alternative to the original. An emulator is not a competing alternative or even a stand alone product but rather a complement to the original product. MorphOS is an OS (or claims to be atleast, sometime I doubt) and as it makes use of both the ROM and even more parts from the rest of the AmigaOS, it is per definition infringing on Amiga Inc.'s IP. How could you possibly question this when it's obvious enough dazzle your eyes?

[AmiGR]

All right:
MorphOS 0.1-4 was an emulator using the ROMs LEGALLY. It only patched Exec and expansion
but even UAE patches some parts of the OS.
So as you said:
" An emulator is not a competing alternative or even a stand alone product but rather a complement to the original product."

MorphOS 0.5+ Do not use nor need the Amiga Kickstart ROM and replace AmigaOS completely.
It falls in the "competiting alternative" category
you mentioned. It does not use the ROM, so it does
not infringe Amiga Inc's IP. That simple :-)
You actually made my life A LOT easier with those
statements:-)

Now what? Gonna reverse your own statements?
The problem with you is that you apply some stuff you know on some stuff you know nothing about.

[samface]

Perhaps this will clear things out for you:

intellectual property
n.
A product of the intellect that has commercial value, including copyrighted property such as literary or artistic works, and ideational property, such as patents, appellations of origin, business methods, and industrial processes.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


intellectual property

(IP) The ownership of ideas and control over the tangible or virtual representation of those ideas. Use of another person's intellectual property may or may not involve royalty payments or permission, but should always include proper credit to the source.

(1997-03-27)


Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2001 Denis Howe

The law has made it legal for an emulator to make use of the original system's BIOS/ROM if it's running unchanged on the original hardware as that isn't infringing on the intellectual property. But an OS on the other hand, may not as it would be infringing on the intellectual property of the owners to the original OS.

[samface]

MorphOS 0.1-4 was an emulator using the ROMs LEGALLY.

MorphOS never was just an emulator. Regardless of the technical details they market their product as an OS and therefore you cannot refer to it as something else.

[AmiGR]

Again MorphOS 0.1-4 was an OS running an Amiga
emulator. MorphOS itself (quark+hal) does not need
anything else to work. They are standalone.
In it's first versions, the A/Box was an Amiga emulator. So no, MorphOS 0.1-4 wasn't an OS using the Amiga ROM. MorphOS was and is a standalone
OS. It was running an Amiga Emulator and is now
running a full AmigaOS replacement.

[AmiGR]

When I referred to MorphOS earlier, I referred to the
A/Box. MorphOS itself is an OS on it's own right.
A/Box was an emulator and it was the part requiring
the ROM.

It was my mistake, sorry.

[samface]

Again MorphOS 0.1-4 was an OS running an Amiga emulator.

The emulator was integrated and a part of the OS, was it not? How do you run the public beta from the MorphOS team without it? How do I remove it in order to not run it? Please, it's a part of the OS and you cannot refer to it as a seperate application. Also, if you run the emulator ontop of another OS than the original, then it's not running on the original system anymore and then it is infringing on their IP. I'm sorry but there is no way around it regardless of how much you try to twist and turn things around, give it up already.

[AmiGR]

How can you remove it? Easilly. Delete abox.rom
(it was amiga.rom in the emulator days) and
module.rom. The startup utility provided with
MorphOS won't run without them but you can use
another boot tool to load the kernel+hal in the RAM
and boot morphos. It won't do anything as it won't
have anything to run, abox is the only current application running in Quark.

[samface]

When I referred to MorphOS earlier, I referred to the
A/Box. MorphOS itself is an OS on it's own right.
A/Box was an emulator and it was the part requiring
the ROM.

There was no A/Box until these later versions which hasn't been released to the public. You can read about that on the MorphOS website, it goes something along the lines "...is from now on called A/Box".

[AmiGR]

Also, if you run the emulator ontop of another OS than the original, then it's not running on the original system anymore and then it is infringing on their IP.
--

Aha! Why wasn't AMax prosecuted then?
It wasn't running MacOS under MacOS!
It was running MacOS under AmigaOS using
the MacOS ROM on a card (+ a floppy interface).

[samface]

How can you remove it? Easilly. Delete abox.rom
(it was amiga.rom in the emulator days) and
module.rom.

That is simply not true if we're talking v.0.4 and below, it requires it's use in order to function.

[AmiGR]

There was no A/Box until these later versions which hasn't been released to the public. You can read about that on the MorphOS website, it goes something along the lines "...is from now on called A/Box".
--

AHAHH! Of course... It was called "Amiga Emulation".
They changed the name to A/Box after it became
what it is right now.

[AmiGR]

If you mean the Amiga Emulation (A/Box)(amiga.rom,
module.rom) it doesn't:) The startup tool just asks
for them to boot the OS and run the emulator directly.
The startup utility isn't a part of the OS though, it's
a standard AmigaOS application and you're free to make another startup tool, or modify a ready one.

[samface]

Aha! Why wasn't AMax prosecuted then?
It wasn't running MacOS under MacOS!
It was running MacOS under AmigaOS using
the MacOS ROM on a card (+ a floppy interface).

That emulator still not claimed to be an OS on it's own.