Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 announced

[Coder]

Amiga Inc have stated Sept 1 as D-Day for all companies missusing Amiga's IP or name.

I wonder how long those court cases will go on. Could be a long time. So far it seems that none of those companies take those threaths serious. It's like always, waiting and see.

Coder

[xeron]

Samface, this is NOT ANN.LU! I don't know if you notived, but news stories of no relevance to Amiga get posted here sometimes. We are regularily kept up to date with the latest Microsoft blunder!

If you want to stir up this kind of argument, please take it elsewhere. The main reason I come here more than ANN, is that there are less of that kind of thing.

[Seehund]

samface:

The Pegasos is delivered with an OS that runs AmigaOS applications. It's also a POP-based piece of hardware that would be able to run new versions of AmigaOS.

The demo is organised/sponsored by an Amiga dealer (and possibly an Amiga user group? Hey AmiGBG, what's the deal?)

It's Amiga news plain and simple. No, it's not Amiga Inc. news, but only allowing that would make for a damn boring web site, there's already http://www.amiga.com for that. Just posting news about software and hardware that is using an Amiga trademark would be equally boring.

This is interesting to more Amiga/AmigaOS users than news about bugs in CDE, Zaurus reviews, yet another MSIE bug and things like that which have been posted during the last couple of days without you complaining.

But then, my opinion is that the Pegasos is a parasite on the Amiga market and only does damage to the *real* attempt to revive the Amiga.

There is no attempt to revive the Amiga. Thank heavens! The Amiga is dead. The only Amiga computer market there is is the one for used machines. AmigaOS will run on whatever third party hardware that gets distributed by a vendor who is interested in a license. You can't have missed this, can you? The "AmigaOne G3SE" board is such a  piece of hardware and Eyetech is such a distributor (notwithstanding that with the compulsory licensing/bundling lunacy the prospects of seeing other hardware and vendors are unfortunately bleak).

My suggestion is try doing it like the professionals, like the webmaster of Microsoft.com would have done. It's simple logic, two competing products trying to reach the very same market segment is bound to cause a conflict of interest.

If Wayne would ever decide to only allow news and discussion about one of the two competing products (which there are not two of, the number is theoretically infinite, it's just hardware, maybe you're referring to the tired old "AmigaOS versus MorphOS" thing?), then amiga.org no longer serves as a community forum and news site, then it's a marketing channel for one company. So far this is amiga.org - not amigainc.org, mai.org, eyetech.org or bplan.org.

Microsoft.com might be a "professional" web site, but it's a corporate web site, this is not.

Besides, I'm also interested in Playstation2 games, should I post the latest news from Sony here as well?

Go ahead. If the moderators think that people would be interested, so be it.

[System]

The Pegasos is delivered with an OS that runs AmigaOS applications. It's also a POP-based piece of hardware that would be able to run new versions of AmigaOS.

The demo is organised/sponsored by an Amiga dealer (and possibly an Amiga user group? Hey AmiGBG, what's the deal?)

Seehund: AmiGBG has nothing to do with the Pegasos event on the 22nd of September in Gothenburg.

Nothing at all.

# Sharakmir/AmiGBG

[samface]

Seehund:

1. AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne has *nothing* to do with the POP standard. Eyetech's AmigaOne authorized product is based on a POP design but that does NOT mean that the AmigaOne standard specified by Amiga Inc. has anything to do with the POP standard.

2. Lindows runs Windows applications but does that make it a Windows OS? No. Just because MorphOS runs classic Amiga applications through emulation, does that make it an Amiga OS? Not a chance.

3. The Amiga always was about one computer and one OS from the very same manufacturer and developer. Unless you're one of their partners, you're not allowed to refer to your product as an Amiga product, period. You want to compete? Fine, get your own trademark.

[samface]

Tickly:

Ignoring the conflict won't make it go away...

[xeron]

Ignoring the conflict won't make it go away...

I'm not ignoring any conflict, but your kneejerk reaction to this posting is totally unnecessary! Amiga.org covers a broad range of topics, including things which are not DIRECTLY related to Amiga, like Microsofts security flaws. I think Pegasos/MOS is more amiga related than that, is it not?

If you dont like it, why not set up www.samfacesamigaincnews.com?

[samface]

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

[xeron]

Advertising the Pegasos and announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

No. For starters its more relevant to Amiga users. Anyway, thats enough of this argument, its just stupid!

[redrumloa]

Advertising the Pegasos

A news posting is not advertising.

announcing Pegasos shows is hardly the same thing as reporting security flaws in the "enemy's" product, now is it?

Yes! If you consider M$ the 'enemy', chance are you also consider MOS the enemy. Just look at it this way, you're keeping an eye on the competetion.

Put it this way. I live in the US which generally holds a distaste to communism. Does that mean there is no news reporting about China?

[Seehund]

Sharakmir:

The demo is organised/sponsored by an Amiga dealer (and possibly an Amiga user group? Hey AmiGBG, what's the deal?)

Seehund: AmiGBG has nothing to do with the Pegasos event on the 22nd of September in Gothenburg.

Nothing at all.

Thanks for the clarification. I just wondered since GGS cooperates on the A1 demo at the same place the day before.

[Seehund]

samface:

1:
a) AmigaOS has nothing to do with the POP standard? No sh!t, here I was thinking that AmigaOS was hardware! I had even planned to buy a new case for my AmigaOS. Thanks for straightening that out.
b) The mobo Eyetech is buying has everything to do with POP.
c) There is no hardware standard defined by Amiga Inc. Zico? Hah! "Ummm, it's like... like a computer, y'know. CPUs and stuff. And a next generation Matrox card, that's mighty important."

2:
No, MorphOS is not AmigaOS. Did I say that? I said that it runs AmigaOS apps, and this is one of the reasons to why AmigaOS users could be interested in news about the Pegasos, as that happens to run MorphOS.

3:
Yes the Amiga came from one company that made both the hardware and the software, and now there will be no more Amiga computers. Get over it and be happy that AmigaOS has finally thrown away its custom-made hardware shackles that dragged it down into computer oblivion. (It's just too damn bad that the shackles are being put back again, but not for technical reasons this time.)
What, are there Evil People Out There illegally labelling their hardware "Amiga" without anyone but you knowing about it? Have you told Amiga Inc. about this?


An offensive comparison for the "trademarkists" maybe, but totally unscientifically I think there are more people in the community who are interested in news about desktop PPC hardware and associated OSs, using The Trademark or not, than there are people interested in news about a "content layer" using The Trademark for handheld devices. Just a wild guess, based on that the community consists of people running desktop computers, not handheld devices.

[samface]

He, he... This will be almost too easy... >:-)

a) AmigaOS has nothing to do with the POP standard? No sh!t, here I was thinking that AmigaOS was hardware! I had even planned to buy a new case for my AmigaOS. Thanks for straightening that out.

Smartass. Of course I was referring to the fact that just because AmigaOS supports one certain piece of hardware that is *based* on a POP design, that doesn't mean AmigaOS is an OS made for running POP hardware. You do know what I'm saying but ignore it simply because it doesn't fit your agenda, you're making it very obvious by these kind of comments.

b) The mobo Eyetech is buying has everything to do with POP.

They bought a design and modified it on order to suit their purposes, the fact that it is originally a POP design is irrelevant and still doesn't turn the AmigaOS into a POP OS.

c) There is no hardware standard defined by Amiga Inc. Zico? Hah! "Ummm, it's like... like a computer, y'know. CPUs and stuff. And a next generation Matrox card, that's mighty important."

Pathetic. Of course I wasn't refering to the Zico specification. I was talking about their AmigaOne licensing scheme which you so dissapprove of so much that you don't care about the consequences of your actions.

No, MorphOS is not AmigaOS. Did I say that? I said that it runs AmigaOS apps, and this is one of the reasons to why AmigaOS users could be interested in news about the Pegasos, as that happens to run MorphOS.

Can you see the difference between AmigaOS and *an* Amiga OS? Yet another pathetic attempt to make me look stupid by implying that I'm saying something completely different... *sigh*

Yes the Amiga came from one company that made both the hardware and the software, and now there will be no more Amiga computers. Get over it and be happy that AmigaOS has finally thrown away its custom-made hardware shackles that dragged it down into computer oblivion. (It's just too damn bad that the shackles are being put back again, but not for technical reasons this time.)

No but for compatibility and hardware partnership reasons, you know those boring little details every OS developer must go through in order to be a complete platform instead of just software...

What, are there Evil People Out There illegally labelling their hardware "Amiga" without anyone but you knowing about it? Have you told Amiga Inc. about this?

Amiga Inc. already knows and September the 1st is getting closer...

An offensive comparison for the "trademarkists" maybe, but totally unscientifically I think there are more people in the community who are interested in news about desktop PPC hardware and associated OSs, using The Trademark or not, than there are people interested in news about a "content layer" using The Trademark for handheld devices. Just a wild guess, based on that the community consists of people running desktop computers, not handheld devices.

Good thing the new Amiga will be a combination of both then since that will satisfy everyone, right? :-P

[Seehund]

NEWS ITEM UPDATE

If anyone is still reading this, there's now a web site set up about this show/demo:

www.pegasos.org

[Seehund]

samface:

He, he... This will be almost too easy... >

What do you mean? It sounds like you're more interested in a quarrel or some kind of competition than a discussion.

Of course I was referring to the fact that just because AmigaOS supports one certain piece of hardware that is *based* on a POP design, that doesn't mean AmigaOS is an OS made for running POP hardware.

Not necessarily, no. Evidently it'll run on as diverse hardware as a POP board, two kinds of PPC-68k hacks for Amigas and possibly a modified Mac accelerator PCI card. But it still means that it runs on a piece of POP hardware, and thus there are no particular technical difficulties to make it run on other POP based hardware. Ignoring the licensing and so on, we all know that AmigaOS is not being tied to any special piece of hardware, one of the goals with OS4 is to make the OS as abstracted from hardware as possible and instead have it targeting an easily portable HAL, how else are new licensees supposed to be attracted...
We also already know that there would be no technical problems to have AmigaOS run on a Pegasos, or at least that is what whoeveritwas from Hyperion said. Add to that T Frieden's words about expecting a porting time of the HAL to new hardware to be a week to a week and a half.

But anyway, Pegasos news belong on amiga.org.

They bought a design and modified it on order to suit their purposes, the fact that it is originally a POP design is irrelevant and still doesn't turn the AmigaOS into a POP OS.

No, they buy ready-made boards. I don't even want to think of the end-customer price if that hadn't been the case! Eyetech has nothing to do with any hardware design on a scale larger than little solderjobs like a PS/2 mouse adapter and an IDE-splitter for Amigas. And who says AmigaOS or any other OS is a "POP OS"? AmigaOS will run on whatever potentially compatible hardware there is that becomes licensed.

But anyway, Pegasos news belong on amiga.org.

Of course I wasn't refering to the Zico specification. I was talking about their AmigaOne licensing scheme

Then you should have written that, instead of "...does NOT mean that the AmigaOne standard specified by Amiga Inc. has anything to do with the POP standard.". The licensing has nothing to do with standards, why would you even think of comparing a SW-distribution/trademark licensing scheme with a hardware design standard?

Can you see the difference between AmigaOS and *an* Amiga OS? Yet another pathetic attempt to make me look stupid by implying that I'm saying something completely different...

Well, I can see the textual difference, but would you care to explain what you mean by "an Amiga OS"? An OS running on Amigas? Well, both AmigaOS, Linux and MorphOS run natively on Amigas. But what does that have to do with new hardware? I'm not implying or attempting anything regarding yourself, I'm saying that Pegasos news are interesting to many people reading amiga.org.

No but for compatibility and hardware partnership reasons, you know those boring little details every OS developer must go through in order to be a complete platform instead of just software...

There is no need for hardware "partnerships", and compatibility is up to the software developer to ensure. And yes, by all means, sell licensed hardware, but it's embarrassingly stupid to make compulsory licensing and bundling a requirement to have your software running on a piece of hardware. There is no "complete platform" anymore. There is AmigaOS and there is hardware.

But anyway, Pegasos news belong on amiga.org.

Good thing the new Amiga will be a combination of both then since that will satisfy everyone, right?

There will be no new Amiga.
AmigaOS 4 will not have a DE-player/AA/AACE.
AmigaOS 5, which is a hypothetical paper concept at the moment, will and can not be based on the DE or anything from Tao.
The DE (no, not the DE-player/AA/AACE) is an even more vaguely defined hypothetical concept.




But anyway, Pegasos news belong on amiga.org.

[samface]

Sigh... I'm not even going to argue with your speculations regarding Amiga Inc.'s intentions for AmigaOS because it's nothing but pure FUD. Why would you have a petition about the new Amiga if there won't be one? Why do you claim that there won't be any AmigaDE for the AmigaOS? Why do you keep saying things that only an employee of Amiga Inc. could possibly know, such as the AmigaOS5/DE beeing just a vague concept? What you can't see doesn't exist, right? Now that would be a conclusion based on nothing but Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

But anyway, Pegasos is not AmigaOS compatible hardware, MorphOS is not an Amiga hardware compatible OS, Amiga Inc. themselves is preparing a lawsuit against them, why does it "belong" on Amiga news sites and why would I not consider them an enemy of Amiga? Because they can run Amiga applications through emulation? Because two companies fighting over a couple of thousands of users instead of cooperating is a good thing?

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion just like everybody else. I would just appreciate if you stopped spreading your opinions and speculations as facts and I would also appreciate that if you feel the need to convince me about something, atleast give me real arguments for it instead of simply repeating the same statement over and over. You're starting to sound like some kind of propaganda minister or something...