Awareness by classic Amiga users about modern Amiga's?

[alexh]

There is no such thing as a "modern Amiga" unless you count WinUAE.

Classic compatibility is everything. Running an obscure OS slowly is nothing.

[guest3110]

from bloodline:

With this paragraph, you have shown your ignorance of Operating system design!

Think for a second, why is the complex mess you propose, better than UAE running on Linux?

Because Linux sucks. :-) And so does UAE. Both too complex for their own good.

There's too much in the Amiga OS's kernel that simply does not need to be there--move it to user level, leave the kernel as small as possible. Write the kernel in asm for speed, and leave the abstraction for everything above it, in C. Porting to different hardware, you'd only need to rewrite the kernel then.

But, why bother? All the Amiga programmers are doing it all right and correct--that is why Amiga flies high and is a stellar success, right? :-D It's not going ANYwhere the way they're doing it. And too many egos and stand-offs are in the way for REAL creativity and innovation. It's going to take an ugly revolution to shake that loose.  :lol:

[bloodline]

EyeAm wrote:

from bloodline:

With this paragraph, you have shown your ignorance of Operating system design!

Think for a second, why is the complex mess you propose, better than UAE running on Linux?

Because Linux sucks. :-) And so does UAE. Both too complex for their own good.

Both are perfect at their respective jobs!

There's too much in the Amiga OS's kernel that simply does not need to be there--move it to user level, leave the kernel as small as possible. Write the kernel in asm for speed, and leave the abstraction for everything above it, in C. Porting to different hardware, you'd only need to rewrite the kernel then.

AmigaOS doesn't really have a Kernel... Almost everything runs in UserMode and there is no Operating system Application separation... everything lives together.

Learn about how AmigaOS works before you comment on it!

But, why bother? All the Amiga programmers are doing it all right and correct--that is why Amiga flies high and is a stellar success, right? :-D It's not going ANYwhere the way they're doing it. And too many egos and stand-offs are in the way for REAL creativity and innovation. It's going to take an ugly revolution to shake that loose.  :lol:

The Amiga has passed from relevance... enjoy it for its strengths...

[guest3110]

from bloodline:

Both are perfect at their respective jobs!

If it's Linux's job to ruin data, I agree. But, no, I'll stick with what I said about them. Linux definitely sucks. I'm run it; it ruined some of my data; it sucks.

from bloodline:

AmigaOS doesn't really have a Kernel... Almost everything runs in UserMode and there is no Operating system Application separation... everything lives together.

Amiga OS does have a kernel. In the strictest sense, it most certainly does. It still leaves modules tied to it from the System. You very well cannot change those on-the-fly now, can you? No.

However, among the most notable OSes--Amiga, MAC, Linux, Unix, Windows--Amiga is the *closest* to an exokernel design than any of them. Which gives it the greatest potential in these times when monolithic and microkernel forms need to evolve. It's one of the reasons it is still relevant and 'venture capital' worthy. Just that some things have to change to shape it up before it ships out.

from bloodline:

Learn about how AmigaOS works before you comment on it!

Don't make this personal. And don't assume; you know what they say about assuming. :lol:

from bloodline:

The Amiga has passed from relevance... enjoy it for its strengths...

Yeah, currently. Like I said in the poll thread, it's DEAD. :-)

[bloodline]

EyeAm wrote:

from bloodline:

Both are perfect at their respective jobs!

If it's Linux's job to ruin data, I agree. But, no, I'll stick with what I said about them. Linux definitely sucks. I'm run it; it ruined some of my data; it sucks.

That is a problem with the user not the software.

from bloodline:

AmigaOS doesn't really have a Kernel... Almost everything runs in UserMode and there is no Operating system Application separation... everything lives together.

Amiga OS does have a kernel. In the strictest sense, it most certainly does. It still leaves modules tied to it from the System. You very well cannot change those on-the-fly now, can you? No.

I have no idea what you mean... I can swap out libraries if I want... I can even patch libraries that are still in use with SetFunction()

However, among the most notable OSes--Amiga, MAC, Linux, Unix, Windows--Amiga is the *closest* to an exokernel design than any of them. Which gives it the greatest potential in these times when monolithic and microkernel forms need to evolve. It's one of the reasons it is still relevant and 'venture capital' worthy. Just that some things have to change to shape it up before it ships out.

If the design had any merit it would be in widespread use now. It has been proven that Hybrid Monolithic/Microkernel designs are the more efficient.

AmigaOS is sort of a microkernel... but not really in the strictest sense... it's a weird beast, and one that due to security requirements (and the need for SMP) of modern systems can't exist in a modern world.

from bloodline:

Learn about how AmigaOS works before you comment on it!

Don't make this personal. And don't assume; you know what they say about assuming. :lol:

If we were talking about fitting a new gearbox to a 1991 mazda MX-5... and then I started talking about calibrating the flux capacitor and adjusting the dilithium injector coils... you'd have a pretty good idea I didn't know what I was talking about.

From your comments I can see this is true of your understanding of AmigaOS.

from bloodline:

The Amiga has passed from relevance... enjoy it for its strengths...

Yeah, currently. Like I said in the poll thread, it's DEAD. :-)

Agreed.

[Astral]

Like stated previously...

"The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere.

[Karlos]

@EyeAm

I've been using linux now for several years. It's highly robust. If it corrupted your data it's more likely down to faulty hardware or a faulty user. My machine at work, for example, was up for over 1 year.

This wasn't a server, this was a desktop machine. That's 1 full year, running an X server (the least stable part of any linux distro), disk and network IO, sound playback. All without crashes, without lockups. I haven't had that level of stability from any other system. It rebooted it after a year because our office had a power outage, so I took the opportunity to upgrade it too.

Linux has, however, become rather bloated.

Amiga OS does have a kernel. In the strictest sense, it most certainly does. It still leaves modules tied to it from the System. You very well cannot change those on-the-fly now, can you? No.

Yes you can. Check the Includes&Autodocs for exec.library/SetFunction(). Disk based libraries can easily be replaced at runtime. Simply replace the .library file. If they aren't currently open by any process, an avail flush call will purge any resident version from memory. The next time it is opened, the new version will be loaded.

[guest3110]

Okay, Astral.  :-)


EDIT: just can't leave without the Linux reply (to two above posts by others): It was definitely LINUX's fault, an upgrade of their software (and their upgrader sucks, more specifically).  :lol:  There, I'm done.

[bloodline]

Astral wrote:
Like stated previously...

"The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere.

It is a public forum, if you don't agree with my views, then provide a clear argument against me. I refuse to take part in an ego stroking contest...

[0amigan0]

Astral wrote:
Like stated previously...

"The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere.

I reverse the equation:

If you DO believe the "Amiga" can go forward, post this thread to Amigaworld.net; over there u'll find PLENTY of fanatics ready to back u up!

PEACE!

[Karlos]

EyeAm wrote:
Okay, Astral.  :-)


EDIT: just can't leave without the Linux reply (to two above posts by others): It was definitely LINUX's fault, an upgrade of their software (and their upgrader sucks, more specifically).  :lol:  There, I'm done.

Which one? rpm? yum? apt-get? You obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about with regards to linux. What did you do, pull out a pen drive without properly unmounting it? User error. Maybe you should have set it up not to write cache removable media.

Was it your hard disk that went wonky? You don't know how to use fsck or replay the journal? Well, the OS can't really help that, other than by giving you extensive documentation on how to deal with such issues. How many other OS will let you unmount a drive at runtime, check it and even manually edit the disk's inodes if the disk has truly become damaged? Not many.

[Astral]

bloodline wrote:

Astral wrote:
Like stated previously...

"The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere.

It is a public forum, if you don't agree with my views, then provide a clear argument against me. I refuse to take part in an ego stroking contest...

As I stated..."The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere."

[bloodline]

Astral wrote:

bloodline wrote:

Astral wrote:
Like stated previously...

"The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere.

It is a public forum, if you don't agree with my views, then provide a clear argument against me. I refuse to take part in an ego stroking contest...

As I stated..."The aim of this thread is to get an idea of the steps people believe need to be taken to go forward, not stay in the past, or stay in the present."

If you don't believe the "Amiga" can go forward, or want to discuss other specifics, please take it elsewhere."

If an argument can't be put forward to counter my comments, then your thread is dead in the water... and of little value.

This is not a criticism but a fact.

[Astral]

bloodline wrote:

I refuse to take part in an ego stroking contest...

And so do I. So let's take this thread in a forward direction, hey?

[Crumb]

Karlos wrote:

EyeAm wrote:
Okay, Astral.  :-)


EDIT: just can't leave without the Linux reply (to two above posts by others): It was definitely LINUX's fault, an upgrade of their software (and their upgrader sucks, more specifically).  :lol:  There, I'm done.

Which one? rpm? yum? apt-get? You obviously haven't a clue what you are talking about with regards to linux. What did you do, pull out a pen drive without properly unmounting it? User error. Maybe you should have set it up not to write cache removable media.

IMHO all that bunch of redundant programs that do the same are a problem because it shows lack of a properly accepted standard.

In the example of the pen drive the write cache should be disabled as default and advanced users should activate it to get extra speed. Most of users prefer to plug and unplug their pendrives when they want... if many users don't expect having to unmount anything it shows that certain Linux distros may lack user friendliness.

Was it your hard disk that went wonky? You don't know how to use fsck or replay the journal? Well, the OS can't really help that, other than by giving you extensive documentation on how to deal with such issues. How many other OS will let you unmount a drive at runtime, check it and even manually edit the disk's inodes if the disk has truly become damaged? Not many.

I guess any unix clone like linux will allow that. I think AmigaOS/MorphOS allows unmounting drives in a more or less legal way (at least with 3rd party commands) and you could edit any part of the disk (no memory protection, you know).

I'm not sure about QNX or BeOS but they'll probably allow it too. I guess the only one that may not allow it is Windows

[buzz]

@astral, you know forums don't work like that. You don't set a topic and then get to control how people talk about the subject.