POLL: Which word, in your opinion, best describes AMIGA today?

[lovrenco]

Hobby  -  that is the word

[amigadave]

It's all semantics.

Different definitions for what constitutes an "Alive", or "Dead" computer platform.  Certainly no one thinks the Amiga is anywhere close to what it once was and I think The_Leander was being way too generous with his estimation of Amiga users today.  I would be pleasantly surprised if there were half that many and suspect that the actual number is closer to 20% of his estimate, or about 2,000 people worldwide that actually still turn on and use an Amiga computer, another 450 to 500 that use MorphOS and I don't have an educated guess of how many people out there use AmigaOS4.x, but I also suspect that almost all of the AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS users are included in the number of Amiga users anyway.

So, even though I voted that the Amiga is "Alive", due to recent activity and just because there are ANY of us left using Amigas and writing programs for Amigas, I can see how my definition does not apply to the many people that have replied that the Amiga is "Dead".  I don't agree, but I understand their definition and reasoning.

[HenryCase]

the_leander wrote:

HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...

OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.

You seem a bit behind the times old bean, and have clearly missed out mentioning certain projects that are more than just life-support.

Work on AROS continues (never stopped in fact), same with OS4 (Evidence of this? The OS4.1 release, the Pegasos2 release, points made by Hyperion on AW.net). Also, in what way does OWB not modernise the Amiga experience (remember, modernising != modern)? Anubis is the most modernising development the Amiga community has seen in years. I could go on.

Like I said before, progress may be slow, but to say it has stopped is inaccurate.

[dammy]

The Amiga we all know and come to love died years ago.  We have multiple offshoots growing in some fashion or form, they are what will keep the spirit of the Amiga live.  But the Amiga computer is quiet DEAD.

[orb85750]

amigadave wrote:
It's all semantics.

Different definitions for what constitutes an "Alive", or "Dead" computer platform.  Certainly no one thinks the Amiga is anywhere close to what it once was and I think The_Leander was being way too generous with his estimation of Amiga users today.  I would be pleasantly surprised if there were half that many and suspect that the actual number is closer to 20% of his estimate, or about 2,000 people worldwide that actually still turn on and use an Amiga computer, another 450 to 500 that use MorphOS and I don't have an educated guess of how many people out there use AmigaOS4.x, but I also suspect that almost all of the AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS users are included in the number of Amiga users anyway.

So, even though I voted that the Amiga is "Alive", due to recent activity and just because there are ANY of us left using Amigas and writing programs for Amigas, I can see how my definition does not apply to the many people that have replied that the Amiga is "Dead".  I don't agree, but I understand their definition and reasoning.

I am not saying you're wrong or right.  But can you provide some information concerning how you arrived at these numbers?  For starters, it would be nice to know how many unique visitors Amiga.org gets per month?  Does a moderator have access to any such stats?

[save2600]

It would also be nice to know how many SAM boards, Pegasos, Efika systems, A1's, Indivisions, Denebs, etc. have sold since their inception.  Tracking the sales data of OS 4.x & MorphOS shouldn't be difficult either.

[Methuselas]

Karlos wrote:

orb85750 wrote:
Sorry the_leander, but it's absurd to argue that OS4 or MOS is life support (and you still have not done so).  Despite your impressive pessimism, there is much excitement and demand within the Amiga community.  Have you not noticed?

Yep, all 15 of us...

:roflmao:



14, Karlos.......EyeAm left and he "isn't coming back".


:roflmao:



Oh, just to throw my 2p in.....


The Amiga is in a state of necrosis, neither alive, nor dead. The *ORIGINAL* Amiga platform is dead, but there have been several resurrections in one form or another of it. Whether any of these become a viable solution for the mainstream market, remains to be seen.

Hate to say it, but it's long gone. Sad, really, but it's true.

[amigadave]

@orb85750,

Well, my numbers, as clearly stated in my post are MY OWN estimates, and not hard figures, which I don't think anyone has verifiable information on an exact count of how many Amiga users are left out there.

AmigaWorld.net claimed to have about 3000 members a couple of years ago, which I doubt that they have gained in membership since then.  More likely, their membership has declined, just like everything else in the Amiga community.  Not all of their current members use their Amiga computers, as I can remember quite well the several years that I visited these, and other Amiga forums on a regular basis just to keep abreast of what was going on in the Amiga community, but had all of my Amigas packed away and never turned them on. I think it is safe to assume that most members of Amiga websites belong to more than one site.  Even though this is the site where I visit and post messages most often, I must be a member of at least half a dozen other Amiga related websites.

Then I got bitten again by the Amiga Bug and started collecting a massive amount of Amiga hardware & software and using them again.  Note that I didn't say there are only about 2,000 Amiga owners in the world, rather I wrote that there are probably only about 2,000 people that use their Amiga computers (on a regular basis).

If you look at the attendance records of any Amiga events over the last 5 years, the number of active people that post on this and other Amiga forums and participate on Amiga related irc channels, it seems fairly obvious that there are not 10,000, or more ACTIVE Amiga users out there anymore.  It is a great shame what greed and power hungry egos have done to decimate our once great community of over 300,000 to 500,000 users & programmers that I am sure we probably still had at the time Commodore went under, and maybe close to 1,000,000 users & programmers we probably had at the height of the Amigas heyday.

[brianb]

Dead.   Purely a hobby platform now...   But if it makes people feel better... As far as "nostalgic/hobby" computers go, I think it has the biggest and most active user-base.

If you think otherwise, you might be on this website a wee-bit too much and may need to go outside.

[Einstein]

EyeAm wrote:

Just think of Windows XP, Windows Vista, or Windows 7, and where those reside, and replace those OSes with "Amiga OS" (not in name, mind you, but I mean put Amiga OS in those arenas, on the same hardware). THEN, Amiga will be back. Til then, it's DEAD.  :-P

What are you, a malware writer with agenda ?

[bloodline]

HenryCase wrote:

the_leander wrote:

HenryCase wrote:
No more development? OS4, MOS2, AROS, Anubis, Natami, Minimig, OWB, Hollywood, Cinammon Writer, etc...

OS4 development continues? Since when? Last I heard AROS was all but dead due to infighting between those wanting a direct 3.1 compatable OS replacement and those wanting to modernise the OS. Minimig is a nice way of continuing to play old games on new hardware - which is what Bloodline was getting at when he described it as life support. NatAmi... Until it ships I will place it in the same drawer as the coldfire accelerator project, the Abox, BoXeR and all the other stuff.

You seem a bit behind the times old bean, and have clearly missed out mentioning certain projects that are more than just life-support.

Work on AROS continues (never stopped in fact), same with OS4 (Evidence of this? The OS4.1 release, the Pegasos2 release, points made by Hyperion on AW.net). Also, in what way does OWB not modernise the Amiga experience (remember, modernising != modern)? Anubis is the most modernising development the Amiga community has seen in years. I could go on.

Like I said before, progress may be slow, but to say it has stopped is inaccurate.

OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.

This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.

The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.

For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.

[persia]

Hold a door open!  The Aspire is terrible as a doorstop compared to an Amiga.

the_leander wrote:

KimmoK wrote:
Alive.

It can be used professionally again.

Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?

[persia]

Anubis is not Amiga, it's a few ex-AROS folks trying to create their own GUI on top of a Linux kernel.  Nothing Amiga there.  Also so far all I've seen of it is a Jpeg running on various one board.  A jpeg in the outside world is not considered an OS....

[orb85750]

persia wrote:
Hold a door open!  The Aspire is terrible as a doorstop compared to an Amiga.

the_leander wrote:

KimmoK wrote:
Alive.

It can be used professionally again.

Care to cite a situation where an Amiga could do a job at least as well as even a £160(Comet) Aspire A1 netbook?

I disagree, a partially open netbook forms an excellent wedge shape -- perfect to slide under the door as a door stop.  

Can you do heavy nonlinear video editing with a netbook?
And what if you have hands larger than those of a 10 year old girl?  How's the build quality of your typical Chinese/Vietnamese not-living-wage-made netbook?  Will it last far beyond its 1-year warranty?  (or is it 90 days)

[amigadave]

bloodline wrote:

OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.

So you think there are no new features, functions, or capabilities in AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS, beyond what was available in AmigaOS3.1?  I think the developers of those two OSes would disagree, as well as the 800 to 1,200 users (guesstimate).  Do you own and use an AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS computer?

This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.

The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.

The delusions of grandeur for the Amiga are limited to a few dozen at most, and not the majority of the remaining Amiga owners that still enjoy using their old or new Amiga computers and I don't even want to get into a discussion about "what is really important....." on a computer forum, but since you put it out there, why don't you try to explain (in your opinion) "what is really important........" to help our Amiga community survive?

For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.

To each, their own.  I am a bit more interested in seeing what can be accomplished by the NatAmi team than I am in a 68k AROS AGA clone.  I think the NatAmi team has its sights set at a much higher goal as their target, and even if they do not reach all the way to their objectives, I think they will produce something better than a 68060 based Amiga with just the standard AGA capabilities.

[bloodline]

amigadave wrote:
bloodline wrote:

OS4, MOS and even my beloved AROS are nothing more than trying to give us what we already had 15 years ago... but on more modern hardware, so we can keep it with us.

So you think there are no new features, functions, or capabilities in AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS, beyond what was available in AmigaOS3.1?  I think the developers of those two OSes would disagree, as well as the 800 to 1,200 users (guesstimate).  Do you own and use an AmigaOS4.x, or MorphOS computer?

Do these features take those systems even close to a £199 PC from curries? No. This is not progress... It is life-support... progress would be taking the Amiga platform beyond what is standard in the rest of the market, that would be a compelling reason to develop for the platform and the platform would be alive.

This is not progress, this is life-support at best... nostalgia at worst.

The Amiga is a dead computing platform... if we want our community to survive then we need to focus on what is really important... without the delusion of grandeur that plagues the ranks.

The delusions of grandeur for the Amiga are limited to a few dozen at most, and not the majority of the remaining Amiga owners that still enjoy using their old or new Amiga computers and I don't even want to get into a discussion about "what is really important....." on a computer forum, but since you put it out there, why don't you try to explain (in your opinion) "what is really important........" to help our Amiga community survive?

Our community only has one generation left now, so lets just enjoy it :-) in 10 years the Amiga will be a footnote in history books.

For me, the prefect system would be a 68k AROS based AGA clone in an FPGA (Like a minimig but with AGA...)... that would be a nice system to have... Thus I await whatever Jens has planned with the CloneA project.

To each, their own.  I am a bit more interested in seeing what can be accomplished by the NatAmi team than I am in a 68k AROS AGA clone.  I think the NatAmi team has its sights set at a much higher goal as their target, and even if they do not reach all the way to their objectives, I think they will produce something better than a 68060 based Amiga with just the standard AGA capabilities.

Even the most whizz-bang Natami vaporware (i.e. the most amazing system they can dream up) will not be as good as that £199 PC I mentioned earlier...