AmigaMac: "What do you mean PowerPC is so proprietary? I guess you can go down to your Local Radio Shack, but some silicon wafers and a few transistors and make your own homegrown x86 CPU? How absurd!"
Have you ever built a PC before, or more importantly, RE-built a PC?
"Everything matters, not just software. And people don't go out of their way to buy 'non Intel' based hardware. Some people actually do give a rats arse about the hardware as much as the software. I personally think PowerPC is technically better than x86 (though that's my own opinion on the subject)."
Technically better, yes. But slower, more expensive, fewer development tools, low availabilty, contract restrictions with Apple...
Yes, everything matters, including the ability to serve its purpose. x86 is less efficient, but performs the job better overall. That may change eventually, but that is not the case now.
Please note the largest orders for PowerPC chips are for embedded applications, hence the reason PowerPC was not an evolution of 68K, and provided virtually no backwards compatibility. Apple gets the desktop versions under contract, so Amiga is left to fight for either the embeddable chips (unsuitable for desktops), or last year's model (which is slow). Yeah, that's what I want in my PC, and I'll pay $800 for it, too!
"Some people prefer commodity over quality... and vice versa!"
So, what commodity does PowerPC offer? The only one I can think of is power consumption, which means almost nothing to desktop users. As for noise, I dare you to listen to my new P4 system. I replaced my Athlon with a P4 and an Antec case strictly to reduce noise, and I can assure you that it is VERY hard to beat. Improvements in cooling are very impressive with the new P4 CPUs.
If you're using Athlon as your reference for x86 cooling, no wonder you're not impressed! My Athlon was a good performer, but, man, did the noise and cooling SUCK. This P4 is amazing.
"You're short-sighted reasoning above almost contradicts what Amigans have been fighting for all this time."
Don't make me laugh. Most Amigans have given up and gone to other platforms -- usually x86. The only people left are a very tiny hardcore audience, and those people hardly provide any "long-sighted" business potential. I think most people would have supported the switch to x86, but we'll never find out now, will we?
"It would be like me asking why are all these Amiga freaks so hell bent on using 'non-Microsoft' software?
...Which has nothing to do with PowerPC. Technically, you can run your non-Microsoft software on any platform, provided the developers make the call.
"...Because they have a preference on what they believe is a better solution for their own wants and/or needs, PERIOD!"
...Which apparently involves paying a lot of money for slower hardware that follows standards several years old. Would you pay $50,000 for an electric car with 50HP, no A/C, and a cramped interior? Some people will, but not enough to matter in the marketplace. Eventually, we'll all drive electric cars, but it's not a realistic option, today.
"I could care less what Amiga Inc. puts inside the case. If they offer both PPC and x86, then we all win as consumers"
I agree with this, but that assumes that their fabled "DE" technology fulfills the promise of running on any hardware. So far, nothing has been demonstrated beyond OS4, which only runs on PowerPC. If they want to offer PowerPC as an option, for those who want more technically advanced hardware, that's fine. But for the majority of us who want the best value, PowerPC doesn't deliver, and that's the only choice Amigans have because that's what Hyperion wanted.
I don't care what they offer, either, so long as it's competitive. G4's are not. I completely lost interest in Amiga when they said OS4 would only work on PowerPC. I just want to see if DE is alive and might be released, and then I'm out of here.
I'll wait for another new company to deliver an Amiga-like OS for x86. AROS is definately interesting, though I still can't get it to work on my PC because I don't have a serial mouse, anymore.
ACE: "What I don't neccessarily agree with is the diversity issue (look at consoles for example) ...yes, they are slightly limited towards the end of there lifecycle, but you know you have a platform which will (hopefully) be supported for a set period of time."
That's because consoles are not about hardware, they are about software, and the companies that make consoles specialize in making and licensing games. A powerful, cheap console with lousy games and bad management won't sell. Even the GameBoy would not have been a success without a powerful library of great games, despite its awesome battery life and compact size. I have a PS2, and I think the hardware is pretty flakey and unreliable, but I can't deny that games like Sly Cooper, GT3, and Rachet and Clank made my purchase a good one.
BTW, I'm a big Dreamcast fan, and that wasn't based on big, powerful hardware, either. I bought that long before the PS2, even though I knew it would die next to the hype of the PS2. It was the games, not the hardware, that sold me.
Wain: "I understand 80x86 is readily and cheaply available, but all it will do is throw the Amiga market into the "every month I need to upgrade "group, which is a place where it will surely be overwhelmed."
Limited availability of drivers will prevent that just fine. :-)
"The 80x86 chipsets are being phased out, and being slowly replaced by incompatible CPU's"
And you see the Amiga incapable of adapting? What of the hundreds of millions of Windows machines out there? Will they all go belly-up? It all depends how programmers write their code and if they can re-compile it easily. Well-written code can be translated to other CPUs. Old code runs under IA32 emulation, which isn't all THAT slow. The only peope who lose out big time are those poor assembly hackers, and I could care less about those people. The programming language, not the hardware, is the barrier. x86 is as irrelivent as PowerPC in this respect. Again, it all boils down to value and development procedure, not an exact CPU.
"So G4 isn't "brand new top of the line" as of what 4 months ago or something? It's an excellent CPU, that is going to go down in price due to the new processor line, and puts the AmigaOne on track for relatively painless upgrading."
Well, it would be nice if things like SerialATA and Gigabit ethernet were available on the AmigaOne, which is not the case, and won't be for a while. AmigaOne is OK for hobyists who like their old hardware, but it can hardly be considered competitive.
I should note that I use my PC for work and play. I suppose if all I did was e-mail and browse the web all day, a G3 would be fine. But then, I wouldn't need an Amiga, would I? I'd be perfectly happy with a Mac, since it can browse the web just fine. A five year old Mac, at that...
iamaboringperson: "If you're worrying about these machines not using the old x86 hardware then you're not thinking about the long term future enough."
See above. x86 is the most popular architecture in the world, and the most widely supported. There are ways to convert software to new CPUs with a minimal performance hit. The whole world isn't going to drop x86 overnight, and IA64 has PLENTY of time to overtake the market (and possibly lose it, too).
In 5-10 years, I doubt Intel and AMD will be the star players, anymore. I also doubt that Amiga Inc will be alive then, the way things are going (but, hey, we all knew that, right?)
I still have faith in AROS, QNX, Linux, and other x86 contenders, so long as they continue to grow and collect a community of talented people who can turn these OS's into real desktop operating systems, and not just embedded or hobby projects. GUI design and intuition is my biggest complaint, as QNX and Linux, in particular, still drive me insane (can you say, "By Programmers, For Programmers?")
Oh yeah, and if it runs on x86, I can try before I buy, which is the ONLY way I'll consider buying a new OS. Of course, you could always go to the store to see the latest Macs, but they are usually the ones running MPEG movies all day, or have their hard drives renamed to obscenities. Yeah, that'll convince me to buy it! :-D
