(RFD) Amiga.org's future

[buzz]

Putting a html4 DOCTYPE in (and displaying a html4 button) doesn't mean your page is valid html4.

w3 check

The various styling attributes are from html3, and are deprecated for html4. Wayne is referring to HTML4+CSS

The fact that the latest user and post was from a spammer on that Drupal site tells me everything I need to know.  I spend more time these days trying to kill spammers off of all my sites than using the site itself, and vBulletin has -- so far -- been the best at stopping them.

Wayne

[buzz]

That forum is a "test" forum to show the module functions.
As the forum is integrated into drupal, there are many ways you could restrict user accounts, such as a variety of captcha modules, as well as filters and so on. It says "nothing" about drupal or the forums ability to manage spammers.

I'm not saying you should use drupal anyway. Just answering questions. I run a few forum/cms/wiki systems, and don't have much in the way of spam problems.

[AmigaPixel]

.....Drupal is a very nice CMS.  It is one of the most versatile, but also one of the hardest to get to grips with.  It is also mainly a framework more than offering a complete site structure out of the box, meaning the learning curve is quite high......

 

I agree, I took a look at Drupal for developing my own website and was overwhelmed by the learning curve. :-o

[Argo]

I also moderate on a site that uses vbulletin.

phpWebsite Support Forums
http://phpwsforums.com

It is strictly a forum site and was originally run with phpBB. Due to hackers and spammers, phpBB was dropped for vBulletin. Setting new members to moderated has drasticlly cut down on the spamming and the users see nothing.
Since the current forum topics can be imported into vBulletin, I'd say that is the way to go. Even better if the rest of what the current site offers can be built in around that over time.
I've looked a Drupal. I've seen some rather nice looking and functioning site, also alot of dreadful ones. I attribute that to Drupal being a CMS framework and not a CMS portal package like Xoops. Basically, a new site would have to be built up within the frame work before content could be added. Alot more work but less than coding all the php for a new site.

Have you checked out phpWebsite?
http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu
Gotta pug it, being a moderator for one of the support sites and all! :-D

[VideoJ]

Although I have a 1200/Blizzard'040/PPC, I don't really use it anymore. (I still need to figure a way to cool the '040, since the muffin fan fell off of the processor a few years ago.) I am, however, still very interested in keeping the community going. (I'm fairly silent on most forums, prefering to browse/read them anonymously.)

I agree , in general, with the "do what needs to be done" attitude... but I'm also agreeing with those who wish to keep the "past posts & such" alive/available. (In my case it's because I'll have a lot of catching up to do on the A1200 once it *is* working again! The only way will be through forums & communities like this: at this point I'm not even sure where/what kind(s) of service(s) is/are still available for my 1200 (1000, 2000, 500...  :-) !!! ) here in the USA; esp. for the Blizzard/PPC!
My point is, for those of us who are still Amiga oriented/preferrer's (despite the necessity of having to use a PC on a daily basis); esp. those like me who are out of date due to circumstance/etc., communities/forums such as this are a life-saver & fount of info! (Even outdated info can be of great use. Consinder those who must update/upgrade from software that is years out of date: such sites are often the only remaining source of such info!

So my opinion is: do what must be done (esp. if it keeps things enjoyable for you Wayne), but try to keep the past intact/accessable (in some form or another) as well, 'cause you never know just who or how it may help someone!

(Forgive any/all typpoo's & mithspelinngs... I a one-haander wit a shot reach.) :lol:

[Viking]

bhoggett wrote:


Erm... I think Wayne's already explained that. The host requires a PHP5 upgrade and the currently used version of Xoops is not PHP5 compatible, nor is there an upgrade path to the up-to-date version of Xoops (which isn't Classic Amiga-friendly anyway).

The option to "don't change the working thing" does not exist unless one was to move to a dedicated server running old software for no other reason than to run Amiga.org. The problem with this would be cost.

Why can't the server run the old software beside the new software?
Multitasking ya know.

[buzz]

I guess the host decided it didn't want to support php4 anymore. I mean it is of course quite possible to support multiple php versions. php4 offical support is being dropped (or is already), so that might be one reason.

buzz wrote:
php4 offical support is being dropped (or is already), so that might be one reason.

As mentioned on page 1 of this thread, yes.  PHP4 was retired about 2 years ago.  The support cycle for it just ended (much like Microsoft does for old Windows versions).  

This means;

-- no new security patches
-- no web host worth their salt will run 4.x any longer except maybe on dedicated machines which we can't afford.

As for me, after 3 threads and about 200 posts, I'm already getting burnt out just thinking about it.  

All I can imagine, and you KNOW this will happen, is that I put about 100 hours into building/converting to something new, then everyone gets pissed off because it's not this old, stale, outdated site that they're used to and run off to other sites...........

Meanwhile, the only reason this site still exists in the first place is the great people who actually donate to keep it going month to month, so when I make the required change, all of the sudden everyone gets pissed, donations die, and so goes the site.

Honestly, I just wish there were one of you (or a group who wanted to get together) who cared enough about it to just buy the site altogether and let me move on to other projects.

I did say I was getting burnt out, so sorry for the "woe is me" speech, but it's where my head's at right now.

[buzz]

Buy the site? Why does there have to be money involved?

I also think you probably could afford a dedicated machine or at least a virtual machine. I mean you ask visitors (and they contribute) to pay for the hosting anyway, so what is the problem there?

Well crap.

Was doing some more research on vBulletin because they're about to release 4.0 when I ran across this article;

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/blog.php?b=2360

It seems that no matter which direction we go in -- remember, we MUST migrate away from Xoops -- we either get stranded by the Amiga's lack of even basic support for web standards, or we embrace the CSS standards, as entire feature sets will be very difficult to design in and/or reach at all without it.

Drupal is the same way it seems in their 7.x development.

Before someone chimes in with "why don't you just present the data in two different ways" (which sounds easy to say but is impossible to do), almost all CMS engines use standardized templates.

Creating a site which outputs twice doubles the load on a server, and would require core modifications, which -- in essence -- means that we effectively strand ourselves from future updates, just like we're currently stranded with Xoops 2.0.7.  

I also have a major problem with programs like PHPBB com which view "modules" as core code changes instead of standalone modules (like xoops does).

I'm beginning to feel like this is a lost cause.

Wayne

buzz wrote:
Buy the site? Why does there have to be money involved?

Well, since you're going to ask a silly question, I'll toss out an equally silly yet amazingly simple answer.

I've spent nearly 15 years of my life keeping this site running, through at least three different regime changes.  As many of you have pointed out, the data here is invaluable and would be a detriment to the community if it were lost.  

I fact, while I fully accept and congratulate other Amiga related sites on their efforts, I would humbly submit that Amiga.org currently represents one of the most valuable assets on the planet to both the Amiga community and -- though we are in no way officially owned by -- the owners of the trademarks.

I also submit that I could take just the domain name itself and put it on the open market for enough to pay off my truck, which is my biggest personal goal in life.  I'm sure I could find some real spanish lesbians who want it  {joking}

So, while you somewhat naively suggest that it's stupid of me to "have to involve money", I humbly submit to you that -- while I might end up shelving the whole damned thing -- there is massive intrinsic value to this site.  

In the way of my 15 years' commitment, in the way of the massive amounts of historical data involved, in the copyrights for things such as the Amiga.org logo as well as the very domain name itself.

You might have the world's most rare Amiga prototype sitting on your shelf, NRFB and in pristine condition, but there is, and only ever will be ONE Amiga.org.

Speaking of which, I believe that what's his name spent far, far more for the Gateway Amiga mockups than I'm even asking for the lock, stock, and barrel that is this site.

I have never been anything but open about my capitalistic nature regarding this subject, but I hope that answers your question adequately.

Wayne

[buzz]

I understand that the domain name holds a value, but if you were tired of the site, you could still hold onto the name/domain, and yet donate the site to a group of people willing to continue running it.

I guess I have a different attitude to these things than you.

I didn't think my question was silly. I myself have put almost 12 years into the exotica site, and I want no financial reward for that, because it was done for the interest and enjoyment of the subject matter (and the enjoyment the visitors get).

Likewise, I question your comments on affordability of a machine where you could continue to run the site as is. You say not changing it would be the best course, but don't seem to be willing to move the hosting. It almost sounds like your are intentionally obstructing yourself!

buzz wrote:
It almost sounds like your are intentionally obstructing yourself!

Perhaps, but having gone through -- I forget how many but -- the sheer number of web hosts in our past who've been a detriment to the site, because they wanted to charge for every little thing, or would arbitrarily kill the site when some leecher drained the bandwidth..

Or -- my favorite -- the one that Amiga Inc used to pay for which conveniently kept "getting their lines cut" every month around the time they were to be paid.

In the 5 years we've used planetxoops, we've had a few outages, sure, but they've NEVER just shut off hosting or charged us extra for every little thing.  They also have provided amazing support every time something has gone wrong.

The problem is the PHP 4 issue, and as I said, there is no host worth their beans who will eternally run outdated, unsupported software.  I wouldn't want to use a web host who does, as it shows a lack of caring on their part.

Wayne

[buzz]

But if you had your own virtual server/dedicated you would support your own software, so that part isn't relevant. You could run an ancient php4 for ever if you wanted.

Having a good host is great, but I think loyalty only goes so far. I wouldn't let the loyalty make the decision on what route to take when it comes to the site. If you really would prefer not to switch the site software, then don't.

I use dedicated servers. For example for exotica, I run php with fastcgi via NGINX webserver instead of apache+mod_php. Shared hosting is far too restrictive to do this kind of thing.

buzz wrote:
I understand that the domain name holds a value, but if you were tired of the site, you could still hold onto the name/domain, and yet donate the site to a group of people willing to continue running it.

I guess I have a different attitude to these things than you.

You're right.  It's just a different viewpoint.  

From mine, I'm not aware of anyone in the community who's willing/able to run the site the way it needs to be, and if there were, it seems to me that they could find a way to invest in their decision to do so.

Indeed however, outside of selling the domain name to lesbians, separating the data/site from the domain name would be like pulling the HEMI out of a 2009 Dodge Challenger and expecting each to be worth more than the sum total of individual parts.

Amiga.org is a package, and would be transferred only as such to an individual with the willingness to invest in the idea as I have done for 15 years now.

Besides, I know some people who spend more per year on Amiga kitsch than I'll take for the site, but no one seems to be willing to make a reasonable offer.  

Wayne