(RFD) Amiga.org's future

[buzz]

@wayne:

At this point you probably no longer want to go with drupal 5.
Right now, for a production site, I would recommend 6.
(I'm also currently developing a site in drupal 6)

In terms of integration if you got the drupal route, you might be better off using the drupal forums, just for the  level of integration you would get. There are tips on migrating stuff from xoops here

http://drupal.org/node/63796

searching around shows scripts other people have made too.

http://drupal.org/search/apachesolr_search/xoops

might be an idea to install a base drupal and test it out. I would also test vbulletin too, and decide which works best for you.

Note that if I was going to integrate vbulletin with drupal I would probably use

http://drupal.org/project/drupalvb

(integrate vbulletin into drupal and not the other way around).

however such single sign in solutions are not as pretty as using the integrated forum, and if you can get your data to drupal, then surely that would be the best option (as you do seem keen to have the flexibility of a cms like drupal)

@buzz,

The problem is, the forums built into drupal appear to pretty much be a joke compared to even these 7 year old forums.

see http://www.whyzzat.com/drupal for an example.

Wayne

[buzz]

Like most things with drupal, you have to build things up to how you want (although I do agree the default forums could be rather more impressive out of the box). There is an "advanced forum" module also that has a more familiar feature set out of the box (it uses the core forum and other contrib modules).

anyway, if you don't want that you can use some other forum integration module (there are a fair few available for various forum systems).

[Plaz]

I just did a quick check and it seems some of the other boards I visit mainly for info and chat are also VBulletin based. Simple but effective.

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/
http://eab.abime.net/

Yabb is another package. I don't recall seeing that one mentioned, but perhaps it's too simple.


Plaz

[the_leander]

whoosh777 wrote:
@leander:

you should follow the thread and to keep on topic

You took some days to reply which suggests you went
to research the questions AFTER my post!

Orrr, it could be that I only visit the site once every few days... Some people, like myself have a life outside of the internet. You should try it some time.

whoosh777 wrote:
its all very well if there are newer versions
of everything, but if the end result is less
effective SO WHAT if the underlying software is
out of date?

For some things it doesn't matter, for other things, such as running a website, it does. I for one, do not wish to see this site hacked in the way its PHPNuke predecessor was.

whoosh777 wrote:

this is off topic, but it is you who are
INCOMPATIBLE using a UK keyboard.

THE STANDARD is the US keyboard,

Citation please.

whoosh777 wrote:
 and unfortunately for you
what I said is TRUE for THE STANDARD, THE US KEYBOARD.

I'm sorry, but UK English is the standard I use. ALT-GR E produces é. And until you can prove that the US keyboard is "The standard" as opposed to an ISO, for instance. Then the point stands. Can't help it if America bludgeoned the English language am afraid.

whoosh777 wrote:
You dont seriously expect the 5.4 billion people who
dont live in the UK to use a UK keyboard???

Strawman.

whoosh777 wrote:
from someone arguing about compatibility I find that
astonishing!

LULWUT?

This thread was about moving off of Xoops due to compatability issues with php5, not some retarded point about international keymaps!

whoosh777 wrote:

you took a really long time to reply,

been desperately researching the question? :lol:

Hardly. I don't visit the site daily. The information was pooled together about 18 months ago when I looked into options when I first came up with the idea for a website. Things changed dramatically in the mean time. I have a life away from the internet.

You aren't nearly important enough to spend days and days looking into solutions that have no impact on me one way or another. Now if Wayne said "Hook me up with a great idea" I would do my best to honour the request.

whoosh777 wrote:
all that proves is there are expensive ways to do it,
and it appears you live in the UK otherwise why use
a uk-keyboard? but Wayne probably
is in the US where it is likely to be a lot cheaper,
eg all the cheap hosting tends to be in the US.

Appears, probably... That's you all over, isn't it chum?

whoosh777 wrote:
you see if you found a cheap way to do it you wouldnt
tell us as you are a no-can-do person!

There are cheeper options, but none of them offer anything over what Wayne has now for hosting. You suggested running it as a standalone from home. I pointed out the costs involved in that for a site this popular. This isn't some little text only pet project.

As it stands this site is close to being orphaned, your suggestions to mitigate this were and are bunk. Its underlying framework replaced with something incompatible with the currently used XOOPS and Wayne's suggestion of vBulitin is quite a nifty solution for transfering, that also has the option of being very easy to then transfer over to a different more powerful CMS in the future.

whoosh777 wrote:


not necessarily, as your research may be deficient!

these things are COMPLETELY different for each country,
I doubt you have researched the entire planet,

Don't be absurd. I don't live in each country on the entire planet. My research into possible options was based on a project I undertook for myself. I used that experience as the basis for my rebuttal. You in turn have used ad hominim attacks and strawman arguments from the moment I pointed out some faults in your plans whilst completely ignoring the points made to your original suggestions.

SDSL whilst cheeper in the US, is still a damn sight more expensive then what is offered by Wayne's current setup and introduces a great many extra issues into the bargain.

whoosh777 wrote:
also this is the internet and you can say anything at all!
:-D

I can. I don't have to though. Also, Ad hom.

whoosh777 wrote:
you could have googled for "installed a lot of PCs"
and just cut and paste what someone else said!

Then that shouldn't be too difficult to prove, should it?

Oh, and another Adhominim.  

whoosh777 wrote:
the main rule I follow is NEVER believe a naysayer!

and you, my friend are a naysayer

Adhominim.

whoosh777 wrote:
as far as compatibility goes I would say the only
systems that count are XP, Vista and Ubuntu

Elive is debian based, in fact it's litterally just debian using the E17 desktop. In terms of compatability, it's closer to the original debian sources then Ubuntu is. Xandros is manky. Zeta (using the win2k pro keymap file, litterally copied out of the win2k install media) is perfectly valid as a comparason in this instance, unless you consider win2k, which many many businesses still use to be invalid, of course...

the_leander wrote:

whoosh777 wrote:
thus if you make any assertions I will test them out
directly, your tricks may work on others

I tend to take the view that people generally judge others on the basis of how they themselves behave. :lol:

no idea what that is supposed to mean.

That much has been obvious from the beginning.

[the_leander]

buzz wrote:
There is an "advanced forum" module also that has a more familiar feature set out of the box (it uses the core forum and other contrib modules).

This is relevant to my interests.

Would you be able to point me to a site using the advanced forum to check out?

[GadgetMaster]

whoosh777 wrote:
you could have googled for "installed a lot of PC

I don't know how old you are but I'm pretty sure your juvenile and petty goading is as unwelcome and annoying to everyone else on this thread as it is to me.

I can vouch for Leander on many points especially the fact that he has built and configured PC's and networks for a living. Not that I see why this has to be justified to a wind-up merchant.

Now instead of being unhelpful and arrogant either contribute something useful or keep yourself dignified with silence on this thread.

[whoosh777]

Oh, and another Adhominim.  
.....
Adhominim.
...

can you please stick to english!

I went and looked up what adhominim is,

if you are going to use Latin try and spell it correctly :pissed:

it is:

ad hominem

from your error I know you either didnt do Latin or you flunked it!

you can tell a lot about a person from their errors!

and apparently it means:

dealing with an opponent by attacking his character instead of answering his argument

I should point out to you that the romans have no reputation for philosophy, just for governance.

well I am not attacking your character as such but am expressing valid DOUBTS about what your motives and reliability COULD be. Not what your character IS but what it COULD be.

I guess there arent latin idioms for that level of subtlety, you need real time english!

those DOUBTS are fully valid for a forum thread as there is so much FUD.

and that guy vouching for you, could just be one of your aliases!

such doubts are necessary eg to avoid being SCAMMED.


you see if you give me an example for how to create your own server for 100/month then that PROVES it can be done for at LEAST 100/month, which I dont dispute!

but logically it DOESNT prove that there arent cheaper options.

this is just a TRUTH PRINCIPLE, and has nothing to do with attacking your character but is merely a pragmatic way of filtering out misinformation.

there are various scamsters on the internet who try to sell $40 web hosting as some kind of bargain, when in fact you can host a website for $4/month.

and they have an armful of achievements just like you. That isnt an ATTACK on what you are but a DEFENCE against what you could be.


it is off topic but if you can tell me a good way to do accent symbols on a US keyboard then I will accept. But with Google there is even a US french teacher who says it is via alt-number_code

http://ms.loganhocking.k12.oh.us/~madame/french/accents.htm

I think a US french teacher may be qualified to speak on the matter!

and US keyboard IS the default because that is the default when you install XP.

on topic:

There are cheeper options, but none of them offer anything over what Wayne has now for hosting. You suggested running it as a standalone from home. I pointed out the costs involved in that for a site this popular.

so you keep telling us, but WHY should anyone believe you?

that is a VALID DOUBT, your report may be completely truthful and integral, but as I say to every scamster:

YOU KNOW YOUR PRODUCT IS GOOD, BUT HOW DO I KNOW THAT?

all you can prove is there IS an expensive way or there IS a cheap way

it is very difficult to prove there ISNT an expensive way or there ISNT a cheap way.

that is a subtlety of TRUTH, and is the basis of a lot of scams.

and that subtlety is AT THE HEART of internet discussions because agenda laden people try to sabotage good decisions by asserting that an idea wont work. when all you can prove is that an idea CAN work by doing it.

Many people thought emulating or reimplementing AmigaOS was impossible, but UAE and AROS PROVED it was possible by doing it.

This isn't some little text only pet project.

but all the fancy graphics can be done with a
text only server!

the graphics is done by your browser not the server

the server doesnt need any graphics at all for
a forum to have really fantastic graphics

all a server does essentially IS text and files.

[whoosh777]

buzz wrote:
Whoosh. What I think Wayne doesn't need is a tutorial on how to code. Although I'm sure both he and everyone else here appeciate your endless wisdom in these matters! Cheers!

and there is no wisdom in your posts?

interesting confession :lol:

what use is wisdom if you say nothing?

(answer: no use to anyone else, but could give you a competitive advantage!)

PROBABLY to do the graphics you just need to reprocess
the text by replacing eg : lol : by the appropriate
html pointing to the animation.

Masterful!

yes it is masterful, as it is the essence of implementing forum graphics!

forum graphics = { a href="graphics_file"}{/a}

(substitute {} for angle brackets)

ie just translate the question into html, dont answer the question! progress by delegating.


I said "probably" to sound less arrogant!

and my much earlier post said "this could be ignorant" that was just an insurance policy in case there was a good argument against it! I was just presenting an idea as the question was highly unclear.

some words arent meant but are there to counteract,
they are time release words.

I hope you didnt think I actually meant "probably" ??

remove the word "probably" for what I really meant,

to be quite honest it doesnt really matter which solution is used, I visit a forum for the text info. the graphical look is just icing on the cake, you shouldnt get too obsessed with it. Also archiving everything isnt necessarily a good idea as conditions change and the old answers usually arent eternal.

I often progress with coding when I recode something IGNORING the earlier code. That is also why reimplementation tends to outdo the original.

people who only use 68k can always go to an internet cafe and view the forums there! I got some Amiga info before I got an internet account from internet cafes.

I would say anyway that today 68k is all emulated-68k, real 68k is quite obsolete. If anything, making the website 68k-incompatible will FORCE people to get WinUAE or Amiga Forever which will reinvigorate their interests!


Also forums arent the only way to do things, you could also have mailing lists. eg when I need info on Ubuntu I temporarily join their mailing list, the advantage of mailing lists is you get a transect of viewers. with a forum, most people dont view most things, with a mailing list everyone views everything and you skip the emails not relevant.

the Ubuntu mailing list is an extremely efficient way to get info on any Ubuntu problem. The Amiga Community as it dwindles perhaps could be served by a mailing list.

mailing lists are more of the moment, you have to respond promptly if you have anything to say. You cannot wait 5 days and then respond. And you arent burdened by
what was said last week. Some questions will keep recurring but there is always someone who enjoys answering the same question again and again and again.

also the recurring answers to the recurring questions start to evolve.

both paradigms have advantages and disadvantages.

experts point out that some product has to be configured to be a forum, seeing that as a problem. not realising that the product is going beyond the forum concept to the concept of community, where "forum" is just one paradigm.

perhaps you should look at widening the scope beyond "forum" and study the non forum options of some of the products.

instead of trying to shoehorn some product into the current Xoops paradigm, try widening your horizons beyond the forum paradigm. Perhaps we could discuss in this thread what the other paradigms are. eg mailing list is clearly one, blog is another, tutorials another, FAQs etc.

ie it is not the product which needs shoehorning but it is YOU who need shoehorning to the product.

sometimes the problem is with the question,

the answers are problematic because you are asking the wrong questions!

[ZeBeeDee]

@Wayne

Whatever you decide to do with the site is just fine with me! If the current message base can be incorporated then so much the better.

If thats not an option then maybe a searchable database of A.org messages past could be considered either as the new site emerges or as an additional feature some time in the future.

[buzz]

Whoosh.. You are a genius. Thanks. Your operating system and compiler is also pretty impressive. I printed out your website (all 50000 lines), but then my dog ate it. Can you provide it in a hardback version?

@someone else about advanced forums:

there is a demo http://socnet.shellmultimedia.com/forum
but im sure it coul dbe made prettier. but I guess it gives an idea of some of the functionality. Cheers

[the_leander]

whoosh777 wrote:
Lots of justifying of his attitude complete without actually addressing the point being made

Having run a number of small and medium websites, even operating my own mp3 streaming server (with http front end) for 7 years, I am well aware of "what a server does".

Perhaps instead of implying people are lying to you when your ideas are shown up as sub optimal, you should look into why. Afterall, verifying one way or the other would take scant moments in this digital age. Stop trying to get others to do your work for you.

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Facepalm

Because expressing how dumb that was in words just doesn't work

[the_leander]

buzz wrote:
@someone else about advanced forums:

there is a demo http://socnet.shellmultimedia.com/forum
but im sure it coul dbe made prettier. but I guess it gives an idea of some of the functionality. Cheers

That was me, cheers!

I guess I'll have to re-evaluate Drupal.

[GadgetMaster]

the_leander wrote:
I guess I'll have to re-evaluate Drupal.

Hmm, that's the best forum I've seen on a Drupal site.

[Dandy]

Wayne wrote:

...  
There are core changes within PHP that would require us to minimally upgrade to a later version of Xoops which isn't HTML 3.x compatible (which is pretty much all the classic Amiga will handle).
...

Hmmmm - when I set up my website, I used HTML v4.0 - and it gets displayed properly with IBrowse 2.4 and AWeb II v3.4 on my A4000PPC with OS 3.9/WarpOS 16.1, as you can see at the bottom of my  
Impressum.

EDIT:
Fixed quoting...

[buzz]

Putting a html4 DOCTYPE in (and displaying a html4 button) doesn't mean your page is valid html4.

w3 check

The various styling attributes are from html3, and are deprecated for html4. Wayne is referring to HTML4+CSS