www.anubis-os.org finally open

[alx]

There have been far too many assumptions with regards to what Anubis is aiming for, and as the new project lead, I intend to clarify these misconceptions with anyone willing to ask civil questions which do not assume ridiculous things.

Anubis looks very interesting - while I love some aspects of the AmigaOS user experience, it's apparent that some of the underlying system is woefully outdated and as far as I can tell none of the three existing systems have a clear roadmap for modernisation.  MorphOS seemed to have the roadmap originally although as far as I can tell most development so far has been on the ABox.  An OS that tries to place the best AmigaOS features on a modern foundation sounds like a great idea, however there's not a great deal of info on the Anubis website.  So here are a few questions

As far as I can tell from the website, Anubis is trying to build an AROS-derived userland on top of a Linux kernel - is that correct?  I guess that's similar in many ways to what MS did with Windows NT, using the same Win32 API on a new kernel.  OSX is another possible comparison, however as you mentioned the old-style Carbon API was only intended as a legacy solution.

Is there any particular reason why Linux has been chosen as the kernel?  I always thought that AmigaOS and clones were much more microkernel based, but presumably the Anubis team considers a monolithic design a better choice for various reasons?

From the perspective of a user, how similar is the system going to be to AmigaOS/AROS/MOS?  What bits of the interface/filesystem/etc do you think are worth keeping and what is likely to go?

In terms of actual code, how much are you planning to re-use from AROS?  From my highly limited knowledge of how Amigalike OSes work internally, doesn't much of the AmigaOS API rely on the fact that any task can quickly access the memory of another task, something that's not compatible with memory protection?  Will this be a big issue?

What about backwards-compatibility with existing AROS applications?  Will AROS applications be able to access some of the new features, a bit like on OS4?  Or is it intended for old applications to run in a sandbox, and build the next-generation stuff up separately (like the ABox/QBox idea in MOS)?  Or would they just have to be ran in a VMed instance of AROS?  Also, are you planning any integrated 68k emulation or would system-friendly 3.x apps need to be run in UAE?

Apologies for the insane number of questions, and I realise that the project's at a very early stage so it might not be possible to give detailed answers.  However without knowing this kind of thing it's extremely hard to properly understand what you're aiming for.

[dammy]

Anubis looks very interesting - while I love some aspects of the AmigaOS user experience, it's apparent that some of the underlying system is woefully outdated and as far as I can tell none of the three existing systems have a clear roadmap for modernisation.  MorphOS seemed to have the roadmap originally although as far as I can tell most development so far has been on the ABox.  An OS that tries to place the best AmigaOS features on a modern foundation sounds like a great idea, however there's not a great deal of info on the Anubis website.  So here are a few questions

As far as I can tell from the website, Anubis is trying to build an AROS-derived userland on top of a Linux kernel - is that correct?  I guess that's similar in many ways to what MS did with Windows NT, using the same Win32 API on a new kernel.  OSX is another possible comparison, however as you mentioned the old-style Carbon API was only intended as a legacy solution.

Is there any particular reason why Linux has been chosen as the kernel?  I always thought that AmigaOS and clones were much more microkernel based, but presumably the Anubis team considers a monolithic design a better choice for various reasons?

Basically it came down to which kernel and drivers were going to be the best option.  One thing that has dogged AROS was the lack of drivers, especially gfx with hardware acceleration.  Going with Linux means we get OEM drivers from nVidia and AMD/ATI to use with a huge number of devs working on new or updated drivers.

From the perspective of a user, how similar is the system going to be to AmigaOS/AROS/MOS?  What bits of the interface/filesystem/etc do you think are worth keeping and what is likely to go?

For the end user, it's going to be as close as possible when it gets close to being full blown release.  There is going to be a large gulf between where the initial release is to where the Devs want it at eventually though.  

In terms of actual code, how much are you planning to re-use from AROS?  From my highly limited knowledge of how Amigalike OSes work internally, doesn't much of the AmigaOS API rely on the fact that any task can quickly access the memory of another task, something that's not compatible with memory protection?  Will this be a big issue?

Very little, if any, for the internal code.  Running AROS via emulation is an option though.   Basically the devs are taking the best from their learning experience with AROS and apply it to Anubis-OS.  Again, AROS was more for Devs while Anubis-OS is aimed at the end user experience.  The target of the end product is to hide as much of the ugliness of Linux from the end user as possible.

What about backwards-compatibility with existing AROS applications?  Will AROS applications be able to access some of the new features, a bit like on OS4?  Or is it intended for old applications to run in a sandbox, and build the next-generation stuff up separately (like the ABox/QBox idea in MOS)?  Or would they just have to be ran in a VMed instance of AROS?  Also, are you planning any integrated 68k emulation or would system-friendly 3.x apps need to be run in UAE?

Last I heard, but that was under the last management team so that may now change, UAE integration was going to happen.

Apologies for the insane number of questions, and I realise that the project's at a very early stage so it might not be possible to give detailed answers.  However without knowing this kind of thing it's extremely hard to properly understand what you're aiming for.

It's under flux with new management so give the new manager a couple of weeks on how he wants his game plan to implemented.   He is also attempting to bring in some new devs from the outside.

[alx]

Basically it came down to which kernel and drivers were going to be the best option.  One thing that has dogged AROS was the lack of drivers, especially gfx with hardware acceleration.  Going with Linux means we get OEM drivers from nVidia and AMD/ATI to use with a huge number of devs working on new or updated drivers.

Just to check, when you say "Linux" do you mean just the kernel or is Anubis also looking to use additional chunks of the entire GNU/Linux stack?  If that's the case, please please say it won't involve X11:)

[dammy]

Just to check, when you say "Linux" do you mean just the kernel or is Anubis also looking to use additional chunks of the entire GNU/Linux stack?  If that's the case, please please say it won't involve X11:)

That question is beyond my limited skills, so I'll let others answer what is and what is not in Anubis-os internal structure.  However, I will answer a cut down X11 (think on the level for PDA/Smartphones) is being used because we want the 2D/3D accelerated drivers.

[kolla]

So... linux kernel, libc (uClibc? glibc? eglibc?), busybox, and cut down X11 (meaning what exactly?), yet working closed source drivers from nvidia... good luck

In the end I'd much more want a regular desktop environment aimed at old amiga users, than what you have described. But, I suspect what is what you'll end up with anyways, if anything.

[bloodline]

So... linux kernel, libc (uClibc? glibc? eglibc?), busybox, and cut down X11 (meaning what exactly?), yet working closed source drivers from nvidia... good luck

In the end I'd much more want a regular desktop environment aimed at old amiga users, than what you have described. But, I suspect what is what you'll end up with anyways, if anything.

I think the most important thing to to hide the complexity of systems like x11 from the user. x11 for example has a million functions, but in reality the user only needs to see a tiny subset of those, presented in a simple and familiar way. This goes for most parts of most linux user space components.

[DyLucke]

Anubis is similar to Amithlon as like as I am similar to Eva Herzigova.

Are you??? Damnit, could i have your phone number? XD


At least this Anubis OS idea sounds interesting, but i feel more confident on AROS for our machines... However as i said, interesting.

[dammy]

Are you??? Damnit, could i have your phone number? XD


At least this Anubis OS idea sounds interesting, but i feel more confident on AROS for our machines... However as i said, interesting.

Take a look at who the Anubis-OS Devs are. ;-)

[kolla]

I think the most important thing to to hide the complexity of systems like x11 from the user. x11 for example has a million functions, but in reality the user only needs to see a tiny subset of those, presented in a simple and familiar way. This goes for most parts of most linux user space components.

I dont know what "million functions" you speak of - yes, there is complexity, but that's mostly due to complexity in hardware. Today you can with some luck do without any xorg.conf already, and let xorg use HAL to figure out the hardware and best suited driver and options - is this what you want? Because, if it is, then you also need HAL and friends. Also you would want to bring in dbus, and then you need... and... and then... and before you know it, your cut down linux isnt so cut down anymore.

I assume you want anubis to work with network? wireless? bluetooth? usb? audio? MIDI? video? All those bring in not just kernel drivers, but heaploads of userland tools - do you intend to rewrite all the tools, and also be able to maintain all of this over time as new hardware, standards and protocols emerge? Is this really what you want to spend time on, or isnt it more appealing to just create an amigaish desktop environment that can use and benefit from all the underlying "ugliness"?

[kickstart]

Another example of vapourware appart from technical specs, natami, anubis... whats following?

[Karlos]

I think the most important thing to to hide the complexity of systems like x11 from the user. x11 for example has a million functions, but in reality the user only needs to see a tiny subset of those, presented in a simple and familiar way. This goes for most parts of most linux user space components.

X11 is a complete dog's dinner. It is by far the ugliest, least robust part of any *nix system.

Every single crash (I kid you not) I've experienced on a linux machine has been down to X.

[alx]

Another example of vapourware appart from technical specs, natami, anubis... whats following?

Seems far too early to be crying vapourware, although I think it would be good to see a clear statement of what they're aiming at with the OS and how that leads into the design decisions - especially which bits of GNU/Linux are junked and which are kept.

If the goal is simply to make features such as datatypes and assigns available on an OS which supports as much hardware as possible, it makes sense to use X, ALSA etc and basically write a desktop (along with alterations to the filesystem like in GoboLinux and applications that take advantage of the new features).  If, on the other hand, they want to include modern counterparts to what made AmigaOS so great in 1985 (responsiveness, ease-of-use etc) then it would seem better to work from a much lower foundation and create something unique.

I have particular issues with X.  I'm not qualified to say whether it can be streamlined into something modern, but my experiences on Linux desktops, general opinions I've seen on the internet, and the way that Apple chose to replace it with Quartz Extreme seems to suggest it might not be the best choice for a "modern" desktop OS.  Of course, if Anubis isn't aiming to be state-of-the-art then that's OK, but I'd still be interested to hear more from the devs.

I'm going to reserve judgement for now until I've heard more:)

[kickstart]

This is not crying is just experience.

[persia]

It's evolving into a Linux distro, problem is there's already a Linux distro named Anubis.  Are the still thinking Obj C?  It's a great language, I use it myself, but I question it's value outside OS X.

[wawrzon]

hm. from what i remember the talk of anubis was for some time here, in fact for almost a year already. if so far nothing was actually done in this field except talking about, which is the only clue available on their website, i dont think the future looks very bright.

[persia]

Frankly it doesn't look good, I'd put it in the category of probable vapourware.  It's hard to generate interest in yet another Linux distro, I remember when I worked on a Linux distro it was so hard to keep it going and that was before Canonical and it's Ubuntu distro. It must be evenharder today.

hm. from what i remember the talk of anubis was for some time here, in fact for almost a year already. if so far nothing was actually done in this field except talking about, which is the only clue available on their website, i dont think the future looks very bright.