www.anubis-os.org finally open

[sim085]

Some other links which may be related with this topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllable_(operating_system)
Syllable is based on AtheOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtheOS) which "was initially intended as an AmigaOS clone".

Regards,
Sim085

[Jakodemus]

After the release of Anubis we will have four amigalike OS. It would be nice if people would concentrate on creating new software for existing systems instead of making their own amigaos with little or none programs to run. No, E-UAE isn't really a usefull program.

[bloodline]

Jakodemus wrote:
After the release of Anubis we will have four amigalike OS. It would be nice if people would concentrate on creating new software for existing systems instead of making their own amigaos with little or none programs to run. No, E-UAE isn't really a usefull program.

But OS4/MOS/AROS suffer from the limitations of AmigaOS... Writing new powerful software for them is problematic... Anubis hopes to rid the Amiga world of the original system limitations, at the expense of backwards compatibility...

[brianb]

While Amiga OS at the time was impressive, a lot of people almost protect it with a type of religious zealously. Face it Apple, Linux, Microsoft, etc. have improved and surpassed.  (Some may argue they have peaked, as they  struggle for new useful features.)

I never understood AROS, it was a cool project but then I started thinking - why?!   Why spend so much time to "emulate" something decades old.

It would be interesting to see a modern OS combined with Amiga philosophies.  And as sacrilegious as that may sound to some, I personally think it would be good for the community.

That's the optimistic side of me, the pessimistic side is scoffing and I'm not repartitioning my hard drive just yet.

[mongo]

bloodline wrote:

But OS4/MOS/AROS suffer from the limitations of AmigaOS... Writing new powerful software for them is problematic... Anubis hopes to rid the Amiga world of the original system limitations, at the expense of backwards compatibility...

So, their goal is to write an operating system that will run nothing? Can't I just turn my computer off to accomplish the same thing?

Or do they really believe that the original system limitations are the only things stopping people from writing new powerful software?

[brianb]

mongo wrote:

bloodline wrote:

But OS4/MOS/AROS suffer from the limitations of AmigaOS... Writing new powerful software for them is problematic... Anubis hopes to rid the Amiga world of the original system limitations, at the expense of backwards compatibility...

So, their goal is to write an operating system that will run nothing? Can't I just turn my computer off to accomplish the same thing?

Or do they really believe that the original system limitations are the only things stopping people from writing new powerful software?

That is precisely what he is saying...  How do you port or build new software on API's and concepts decades old.  Why don't they port new browsers to Windows 3.1, MacOS 7, etc.  Because it's not worth it!  

I'm not bashing Amiga OS, I really like my Amiga's and it shows with the ridiculous prices i have paid for this old hardware.  But I don't understand how some people act like Amiga OS comes from the future, and everyone else is still playing catch up.  I can only assume it's cause they have never written a line of source code.

[Argo]

So this will be able to run mozilla, open office, pidgin, etc. right off. We'll have an instant base of Linux software to work off of, right?

[brianb]

Argo wrote:
So this will be able to run mozilla, open office, pidgin, etc. right off. We'll have an instant base of Linux software to work off of, right?

No.

But who knows they haven't mentioned much of the details.  If they roll their own GUI on top of Linux then that's a negative.

But you would in theory have a ton of development tools available right off the bat, and a large resource of drivers for hardware.

[persia]

Since they are using OSX as the model, presumably, if they ever get to a release stage, they will be able to launch X11 from within Arix, just like you launch X11 from within OS X.

Similarly OS X has Carbon, which links back to the pre-OS X days and Cocoa, the NeXT framework that has just about buried Carbon.

So presumably Arix will contain a Carbon equivalent that will support old Amiga APIs and a Cocoa based on some new framework.  Now Apple had thousands of full time programmers to take on the task, Arix has a couple part time hobbyists, so we'll just have to wait and see wether they can deliver a champagne OS on a water budget...

[dammy]

So this will be able to run mozilla, open office, pidgin, etc. right off. We'll have an instant base of Linux software to work off of, right?

From what I understand, they will have to some slight changes and recompiled to run on Anubis because of the different file system being used.  As developement continues, then the final choices will be made on different subjects and new milestones will reflect those decisions.

Dammy

[sim085]

brianb wrote:
everyone else is still playing catch up. I can only assume it's cause they have never written a line of source code

Why is it so hard to write code for an Workbench/AmigaOS? Can't for example a Java Runtime Environment library be developed for Amiga basedet OS and therefore get the ability to run any Java application?

[brianb]

sim085 wrote:

brianb wrote:
everyone else is still playing catch up. I can only assume it's cause they have never written a line of source code

Why is it so hard to write code for an Workbench/AmigaOS? Can't for example a Java Runtime Environment library be developed for Amiga basedet OS and therefore get the ability to run any Java application?

Well one problem I personally found, it's hard to even compile apps on the Amiga hardware.  I had to resort to coding in Linux and cross compiling.

As for Java, it has a high overhead and requires a decent CPU.  Amiga's appear to be fast by using some "fancy footwork."  The CPU is offloading a lot of I/O to custom support chips.  The main CPU on most models is usually pretty slow, but the Amiga did amazing things with the use of these custom support chips.

So while there have been JVM attempts they have failed or were way too slow to be useful on the Amiga.  As far as I know there hasn't been a successful JIT (Just in time) compiler attempted.   A JVM w/ JIT compiler would be much faster, but requires a lot of heavy lifting by the CPU.

[aperez]

Anubis won't go anywhere.  It's merely a re-implementation of an old idea called Amithlon.....They'd be better off supporting kernel and driver updates for Amithlon instead of trying to reinvent the Amithlon "wheel".

Ferrells,

Anubis will be *far* from a reimplementation of Amithlon. It will actually be possible for unmodified Amithlon to run under Anubis using the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine

There have been far too many assumptions with regards to what Anubis is aiming for, and as the new project lead, I intend to clarify these misconceptions with anyone willing to ask civil questions which do not assume ridiculous things.

[aperez]

Ok, I've been pondering ordering myself a Beagleboard, and if this will run on it, well, one more incentive to buy.

And what am I doing with a beagleboard?  That is for me to know and for you to find out.

Anubis will support ARM in some fashion from day one. As a beagleboard owner myself and the new Anubis project lead, you can expect Anubis support for this tiny, extremely-inexpensive platform.

[aperez]

Since they are using OSX as the model, presumably, if they ever get to a release stage, they will be able to launch X11 from within Arix, just like you launch X11 from within OS X.

Similarly OS X has Carbon, which links back to the pre-OS X days and Cocoa, the NeXT framework that has just about buried Carbon.

So presumably Arix will contain a Carbon equivalent that will support old Amiga APIs and a Cocoa based on some new framework.  Now Apple had thousands of full time programmers to take on the task, Arix has a couple part time hobbyists, so we'll just have to wait and see wether they can deliver a champagne OS on a water budget...

Persia,

I'm not sure what you consider to be the "OS X model". Can you explain this? As for Carbon, OS X 10.6 is the first release to, practically speaking, drop support for Carbon. Carbon on 64-bit Intel machines has never functioned 100%, and in 10.6, Apple made the conscious decision to stop supporting the compatibility API they created nearly a decade ago.

As for Apple having thousands of programmers, once again, the open source methodology of using building blocks has proven itself in the real world, which means that we don't need a thousand programmers. We also have an immensely smaller focus than Apple does. Some of my friends work for Apple. I work down the street from them in Cupertino.  That said, Darwin has serious performance issues, and I'm by no means an Apple fanboy.

Anubis will embrace this building-block methodology when it's deemed most expeditious.

[alx]

There have been far too many assumptions with regards to what Anubis is aiming for, and as the new project lead, I intend to clarify these misconceptions with anyone willing to ask civil questions which do not assume ridiculous things.

Anubis looks very interesting - while I love some aspects of the AmigaOS user experience, it's apparent that some of the underlying system is woefully outdated and as far as I can tell none of the three existing systems have a clear roadmap for modernisation.  MorphOS seemed to have the roadmap originally although as far as I can tell most development so far has been on the ABox.  An OS that tries to place the best AmigaOS features on a modern foundation sounds like a great idea, however there's not a great deal of info on the Anubis website.  So here are a few questions

As far as I can tell from the website, Anubis is trying to build an AROS-derived userland on top of a Linux kernel - is that correct?  I guess that's similar in many ways to what MS did with Windows NT, using the same Win32 API on a new kernel.  OSX is another possible comparison, however as you mentioned the old-style Carbon API was only intended as a legacy solution.

Is there any particular reason why Linux has been chosen as the kernel?  I always thought that AmigaOS and clones were much more microkernel based, but presumably the Anubis team considers a monolithic design a better choice for various reasons?

From the perspective of a user, how similar is the system going to be to AmigaOS/AROS/MOS?  What bits of the interface/filesystem/etc do you think are worth keeping and what is likely to go?

In terms of actual code, how much are you planning to re-use from AROS?  From my highly limited knowledge of how Amigalike OSes work internally, doesn't much of the AmigaOS API rely on the fact that any task can quickly access the memory of another task, something that's not compatible with memory protection?  Will this be a big issue?

What about backwards-compatibility with existing AROS applications?  Will AROS applications be able to access some of the new features, a bit like on OS4?  Or is it intended for old applications to run in a sandbox, and build the next-generation stuff up separately (like the ABox/QBox idea in MOS)?  Or would they just have to be ran in a VMed instance of AROS?  Also, are you planning any integrated 68k emulation or would system-friendly 3.x apps need to be run in UAE?

Apologies for the insane number of questions, and I realise that the project's at a very early stage so it might not be possible to give detailed answers.  However without knowing this kind of thing it's extremely hard to properly understand what you're aiming for.