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Author Topic: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)  (Read 9270 times)

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Offline Hans_

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #44 from previous page: November 10, 2008, 10:41:33 PM »
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itix wrote:
@Hans

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Or was it that the MorphOS desktop (Ambient) is light years ahead of any Workbench? Anyone that has used and followed Ambient's development knows how it started as an inferior desktop that everyone replaced with the original Amiga Workbench or Directory Opus Magellan the first thing they did. In MorphOS 2.0 I seriously doubt that anyone has replaced Ambient with Workbench, and this is for a reason!


I doubt that they could replace it with Amiga OS 4.1's workbench because it probably wouldn't run properly.


I dont think he meant OS 4.0/4.1 Workbench but WB from OS 3.9. First versions of Ambient (and later also...) were so limited in features that some users found it better replace it by Workbench from OS 3.9.


Well, if we're comparing MOS 2.1 with AOS 4.1, then comparing Ambient with AOS 3.9's Workbench doesn't make sense. Workbench has been improved, although the basic way of accessing files hasn't changed.

Hans

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Offline Hans_

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2008, 10:44:59 PM »
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pVC wrote:
I also find the OS4.1's oldskool prefs system pretty messy nowadays, when there is much more settings needed than 20 years ago. MorphOS has them more clearly organized and rearranged. OS4.1's prefs also don't feel consistent.. it feels like they've taken prefs from old programs from here and there and haven't adapted them with any plan.


I actually prefer the OS 4.1 prefs system over a monolithic preferences editor.

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It also gives consistency to system and programs as MUI got as de facto standard on Amiga and for example most networking programs use it. Now you can tune whole system with it.


What exactly do you mean with consistency to the system and programs? If you mean that there's only one set of themes to edit, then I agree; if you're talking about the look and feel, Reaction and MUI have been setup to give the same look and feel.

Hans
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Offline kickstart

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2008, 11:03:43 PM »
I never used morphos or amigaos4.x, but i reading about it, my vote is for morphos, i see it like the amigaos should be.

The post of pVC says everything and from a user with both systems.
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Offline itix

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2008, 11:33:32 PM »
@Hans

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Well, if we're comparing MOS 2.1 with AOS 4.1, then comparing Ambient with AOS 3.9's Workbench doesn't make sense. Workbench has been improved, although the basic way of accessing files hasn't changed.


Well... tmhgm was basicly pointing out how much Ambient has progressed in the last years. I have seen screenshots from new WB 4.1 listers but I doubt it still comes even close. Ambient is simply too far ahead right now.

But then I am an Ambient developer (albeit less these days) and also member of the MorphOS development team so it is not maybe fair to say so :-)
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Offline zylesea

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2008, 12:57:17 AM »
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Hans_ wrote:

I actually prefer the OS 4.1 prefs system over a monolithic preferences editor.



What exactly do you mean by "monolithic prefserences editor"?
There are seperate files for all preferences in Morphos:prefs/mprefs/ and IIRC there's still a way to launch them seperately - but for what benefit?
In MorphOS you get a unified window where you specify which preference you like to edit. You may chose to have this OS X like design or in a rather MUI typical lister view (which I prefer).

Another thing for chosing either AOS4 or MorphOS to consider is, to look for ppl in your region which system they have.
In my area back in 2002 I was the 1st (or was I 2nd? doesn't matter anyway) to have a Pegasos and a while after a small bunch of ppl followed that route. On major reason was to focus knowledge on *one* system.

Offline xeron

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2008, 07:53:31 AM »
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takemehomegrandma wrote:

No they don't, and I was going to write a reply to that, but then I saw that pVC already had! ;-)


Actually, a few of your claims are wildly inaccurate, as has been pointed out, but if you want to still believe that, for example, OWB is still a "simple SDL recompile" because it makes you feel all warm and snuggly about how superior MorphOS is, rather than actually researching your arguments, thats up to you. I have a lot more respect for pVC's opinions than yours.

Mind you, up until a couple of weeks ago, I also had a Pegasos alongside my AmigaOne, and I didn't form the same opinions as him, so a lot of it is subjective.

For example, pVC claimed that OS4's installer had lots of "useless requesters", where I thought it was really good that it told you exactly what the installer was doing, and thought it was really helpful for new users. Also, I had no problem determining when the installer had finished, but maybe it should have had a final "Congratulations! You're all done!" message if pVC found it unclear, but really, I think OS4's installation procedure is excellent.

Also, pVC said he found MorphOS's "eye candy" to be nicer, whereas I found the exact opposite. I hated every single one of the themes that came with MorphOS. Usually they had too many high contrast gradients which made them look really ugly. In the end I settled for a converted OS4 skin on my MorphOS box.

The other thing I disagreed with was where pVC claimed that OS4's prefs were inconsistent; all OS4 prefs modules are compiled against a common preferences framework. Where any two prefs have the same functionality, it will be in the exact same place. They also all use the same GUI toolkit. Where they differ, its because they are showing preferences for different things. The only prefs editor I can think of that is really different is GUI prefs, where it uses a lister instead of tabs, but really, it has so many options that would be unwieldy. But the GUI prefs is really for "pro" users, most people just use pre-defined skins.

Edit: I just clicked through all the prefs editors, and the vast majority are very consistent, I thought. Notable exceptions were GUI (simply because of the amount of options), AHI (because it is not actually an OS4 specific component), UBoot, and to a lesser degree Internet. On the whole I stand by my statement. And besides, who spends all their time in prefs editors?

One thing you have to remember is that MorphOS had a big head start in development time to OS4, and there was a time when OS4 was quite far behind, and now it is only a bit behind in some areas. In fact, in some cases MorphOS has caught up to OS4 (64bit filesystems, TCP/IP etc).

The thing is, in a lot of areas where OS4 used to be behind, it has caught up, and development hasn't slowed a bit. It is unusual if there arent updates to the beta version every single day. IMHO, on the areas where OS4 still is behind, it won't be long before it catches up. A lot of the weak points pointed out in this thread are being worked on.

Another thing about MorphOS that I found was that it seemed pretty much dead to me. The forums on morphzone are very quiet, and there never seemed to be all that much software written for MorphOS, outside of the occasional AmigaZeux release and a couple of other devs. Whereas there is often new or updated software to download for OS4, and the OS4 web forums are much livelier places.
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Offline xeron

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2008, 07:57:41 AM »
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kickstart wrote:
The post of pVC says everything and from a user with both systems.


pVC isn't the only person posting with direct experience of both systems.
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Offline Fab12

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2008, 01:19:56 PM »
Xeron,

about new or updated software on OS4, if we exclude half-assed sdl ports, x11 recompiles and dumbo gui frontends for a few programs, does the word "often" still apply? :)
And don't get me wrong, on morphos too, there are also often some sdl game ports, which is not wrong, but doesn't prove anything, since it's usually a 5minutes-1hour job.

It's also funny you say morphos had a big head start... Let me remind you that unlike OS4, almost everything had to be rewritten or largely fixed/adapted (aros stuff).
 

Offline xeron

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2008, 01:48:06 PM »
Yes, often still applies. I'm talking about updates as well as new apps, of software written for Amiga, available natively on AmigaOS4, and where OS4 is a maintained target by the app author(s), as well as OS4 specific apps.

Besides, not all ports are half assed, some of them actually have considerable Amiga-specific changes, such as Steven Solie's SSH port, OWB (which is as much an Amiga app as Sputnik is a MorphOS app now), VICE, Transmission, NetSurf, and many others.

It seems to be a delusion amoung OS4-bashers that all OS4 has is SDL ports or X11 apps, which is simply not true.
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Offline hooligan

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2008, 01:57:37 PM »
If Aminet stats are to be trusted, both platforms are pretty much on par. And most of the software uploaded is useless crap anyway :-)
 

Offline xeron

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2008, 02:06:25 PM »
OK, well, i could be wrong, but when i had both, it felt like there was a lot more updates and software to download for OS4 than there was for morphos, SDL games aside.

Mind you, I was only aware of and checking Aminet for MOS, and I was using OS4Depot & Aminet for OS4, and its perfectly conceivable that for the period I had my Peg set up and in use, MOS was especially quiet.

I just got the feeling that morphzone was very quiet and that morphos' software "scene" seemed quieter. Another mitigating factor could have been that most of my Peg-usage time was well before the release of MOS2, and maybe the release has warmed things up a bit. (I did try MOS2 briefly before selling the Peg).
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Offline Crumb

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2008, 03:49:35 PM »
@xeron

I think that MorphOS should improve its default MUI colours as it seems that someone thought "look! I can use gradients! let's use gradients of colours that hurt eyes everywhere". OS4 colours are IMHO more consistent.

But I don't think you are right about MOS having less apps than OS4.

For example, MOS2.x includes a proper SSH console as standard and xad support is included in Ambient as default.

MOS2 has Sputnik, and I think it's slightly better than using both NetSurf and OWB.

VICE is native for every amiga-like system. OS4 and MOS coders worked together (AmiDog ported it to OS4 and Piru and others added nice features like Overlay and fixed small bugs).

Transmission... well, BeeHive may not be perfect but it works.

Each platform has programs for the same (OS4 has the good looking Epistula and MorphOS has the much more stable PolyGlot).

MorphOS even had commercial games released like Robin Hood.

Well, the sad reality is that there are not many releases for next gen amigaoses. IMHO it's better to code in a portable way, support as many Amiga-like systems you can and forget stupid wars. Each one uses what one likes more and that's all.
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Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2008, 04:41:25 PM »
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You seem to have had some problems with OS 4.1 that I haven't had. For example, I've used USB drives and they pop up instantly for me. With the exception of my Force 3D pro having the z and throttle axes swapped, I haven't experienced any USB issues. I know that others have though, but they seem to be related to specific products.


With very limited testing I could guess it depends about the size of mass storage device too. 2GB stick doesn't show up instantly, but lot faster than 250GB drive. When I plug that 250GB drive in, first it doesn't seem to happen anything. With my very first try I had time to start looking mounter program, because I thought it doesn't automount. Then there appears uninitialized icon on desktop and finally it changes to correct drive icon and I can use the drive. Also I had problem to get memory stick to work when having several devices plugged... or maybe I just didn't have patience to wait enough.

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What ugly yellowish background? That's not the OS 4.1 default theme. I'm currently using png mouse pointers on OS 4.1. Oh, and have you tried out the 3D accelerated blankers on OS4?


The default 4.1 theme has yellowish backgrounds everywhere, like in all prefs programs. Or maybe it's just my cheap TFT monitors, but it really shows up like light yellow... reminds me yellowed Amigas or old paper :) Also the rest of the color choises don't work that good together in my opinion, like the red group titles.

I was thinking that this comparison is made with out-of-the-box systems. Or is there PNG pointers or 3D blankers in 4.1 cd somewhere? I haven't noticed... it would go too wide if we take all 3rd party stuff in count here too. BTW. PNG-icons don't seem to work by default on OS4.1 either. It gave me problems at first when some programs had png-icon on their dir and without 3rd party extension the dir wasn't accessible from Workbench.


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I never noticed it opening additional windows that shouldn't be visible. And my default AHI settings worked just fine.  after installation.


Installer opened Dialer shell window at some point of network configuration. It showed unnecessary information and the window wasn't closed by installer ever. That gave me uncertain feeling if the installation was finished at the end, because it wasn't closed or there wasn't any information if everything was completed.

AHI had all settings zeroed when it opened its config window during the installation. I noticed it, but forgot to change everything and that's why I didn't had any sound after installation. More inexperienced user could be in trouble because of that. I heard some others have had same problem too.



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Which games? I've run Wipeout no problem; I wasn't too interested in other old games. I'm still working on MiniGL (the OS 4.1 version was a beta) so if you have any issues with 3D (not for old 68k/WarpOS games though), please let me know.


As I said, with old Amiga games/demos. I'm interested backwards compatibility and that's why I haven't tried new OS4 native 3D stuff that much. Almost all games started, but had some graphical problems. Wipeout works best, but not perfectly. Transparencies doesn't seem to work in it. For example on screen texts and graphics have boxed background when it should be transparent. Payback has all gfx broken. Shogo has working 2D gfx, but 3D gfx only gives some weird red lines. Encore's demos ran, but 3D gfx was misplaced or missing in many parts. I don't remember now all things I've tried, but I could do better report some other day with better time.
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Offline Stevo

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Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2008, 04:52:13 PM »
@Crumb

BeeHive? Eeek, quickly use MLDonkey instead, which pretty much rules :)
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Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2008, 04:57:45 PM »
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What exactly do you mean with consistency to the system and programs? If you mean that there's only one set of themes to edit, then I agree; if you're talking about the look and feel, Reaction and MUI have been setup to give the same look and feel.


I mean that there isn't too many GUI toolkits in use. It's nice that system and programs use same ways for their configurations and operation. Even for global settings. As there is much more old programs using MUI than Reaction, it gives more consistency IMHO.
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Offline pVC

Re: MorphOS 2 vs. AmigaOS 4.1 (pros/cons)
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2008, 05:00:06 PM »
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I have seen screenshots from new WB 4.1 listers but I doubt it still comes even close. Ambient is simply too far ahead right now.


Yep, WB4.1 listers don't have Ambient kind of functionality at all in current state.
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