Ideas: The new Amiga. Yes, it's inevitable!

[cicero790]

I agree with you A6000. The graphic cards needs to be replaceable other wise it will fall behind pc every second year. It will not do, market wise, and it would fail in the intention of being a computer capable of running the most taxing games available. The option to upgrade must probably be there. The sound chips isn't that sensitive to this rat race or the cpu if its a quality cpu.

[DavidF215]

>While a good idea, how realistic is it?
WHO will recode AOS and make the new x86 versions of SW?
Mine IS genuinely within reach when the NAtAmi60 arrives!

Well, how unrealistic is it? Sun Microsystems and Apple both ported their OS to x64. Give me two valid, practical reasons (one business and one technical) why the idea is unrealistic in contrast to Sun's and Apple's reasons in porting their OS to x64. Sun Microsystems is an Enterprise level business with lots of experience in the industry, and if they made the decision to port SolarisOS (with is more stable than AmigaOS and is an Enterprise level OS), then I see NO reason not to follow them.

Who will port AmigaOS to x64? Hyperion ported from 68000 to PowerPC, so they have porting and business experience coupled with a few new employees from the Aros and UAE projects--if any of them are available for hire for such a project. The only SW that may have problems with emulation are newer apps designed for the PowerPC chips.

Where's a link for this NAtAmi60 project?

>Dave, those are some practical ideas, but in my opinion, nothing that will ever do anything for the Amiga. Let's work on that list together, ok, bro?

Why wouldn't it do anything for Amiga if the code was ported to x64. The only other chip I would use other than PPC would be the Power5 chip from IBM, but that's too expensive for a new entry level Amiga computer.

[Methuselas]

The new top of the line would be like this:
2 Dual-Core AMD Opteron - Model 2222 SE
4 GB (4 x 1 GB DIMMs)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3700 Graphics Card
146 GB (1 x 146 GB) 15000 rpm SAS Disk
AmigaOS5 for x64
An Office Suite with MS-Office compatible datatypes
A handful of new games
Be enclosed in a case like the A4000T
Include a modernized Video Toaster and Maya 3D
Cost about $3595

OMFG!  :-o I'd *LOVE* this for Maya and it's 3X the price I can build a quad-core for. I want Open Office, though. Accept no substitute!  :-D

[QuikSanz]

DavidF215 wrote:

Where's a link for this NAtAmi60 project?

Here
"http://www.natami.net"

Chris

[DavidF215]

@Zekaric

>This brings up an comment I saw someone else make. Low end should look like an A500/A600/A1200? What are you smoking? I never understood why people liked that all in one look.

Apparently nothing like you're smoking. Unfortunately for you, Apple has proven that there is a market for such small devices due to the success of their MacMini.

>Keyboards fail.

I've been in the PC tech support industry for years, and keyboard failure has been rare. It's not an important factor anymore.

>Replacing a keyboard in an all in one design is far more difficult, especially for the average gumby, than buying an off the shelf keyboard and plugging it in.

I agree to a point, but in reality such "gumby" users are not going to know that it was a keyboard failure to begin with, and they'll bring the entire computer to the shop anyways. And since keyboard failures are so rare these days (other than spilled liquids), I don't think it's a big issue. My A1200 keyboard has yet to fail, and even my C64 keyboard still works. So, again, I don't see replacement as a big deal.

>I would rather see something like a mac-mini or iTV form factor in a low end device than the computer in the keyboard idea.

I like both designs, and I'm sure others do, too. Offer both and let the market decide.

[DavidF215]

QuikSanz wrote:

DavidF215 wrote:

Where's a link for this NAtAmi60 project?

Here
"http://www.natami.net"

Chris

I forgot about this project, and I remember wondering if it has a license from Amiga, Inc. If so, then it would be a good thing for Amiga. The site mentions a licensed copy of AmigaOS, so I somewhat presume that the hardware has been licensed as well. ?? Anyone know?

[CodeSmith]

@DavidF215

While an all-in-one keyboard design would be quite nice, it has one big flaw: I already have a perfectly functional keyboard, and I'm going to need a KVM switch anyway because I don't have room on my desk for two monitors.  So for me anyway a small box design is more practical than a pc-in-a-keyboard design.  This is btw one of the reasons why I haven't bought desktop a mac yet: I already have a monitor, thank you (the mini's not powerful enough and I don't need an 8-core monster either).

[CodeSmith]

@DavidF215

About NatAmi, the hardware wasn't licensed for the simple fact that it's 100% new; there isn't a single CBM-designed chip on the board.  The chipset is compatible based on the publicly available documentation and assorted reverse engineering techniques.  Since neither Gunnar nor Thomas worked for CBM or any subsidiary, it's a clean room design.  The "licensed copy of AmigaOS" is apparently just a few hundred boxed copies of OS3.9.  Nice and simple, no weird contracts :-)

[Jpan1]

I'd like a new Amiga that guru meditates like the original - everyone needs time for the guru

Or how about a high concept art computer - a cross between Dali's melting clock and a pretzel design. Looks is everything! forget apples, satsumas are the way to go.
b-t-w why computers have to be grey, black, or creamy white?

Failing that, I'd go for a H.A.L 9000 type computer that speaks, opens the garage doors, and reminds me of some general mindless 'to do' chores, and understands basic philosophical concepts.
Yeah, sure all you'd have to do is upgrade the Amiga's existing speech synthesis chip to a Super speech synthesis chip that speaks 10 languages and has intergrated A.I.

How about a competition for designing a new concept Amiga?

J>>>

[cicero790]

Zekaric sketched a perfectly do able design. That could have competitive price and that could fill the same market segment the original Amiga upheld.

@Jpan1

Zabasoft releases Ultra Hal that is exactly what you talking about. A chat bot you can talk to and that learns talking to it and that can perform tasks. That in conjunction with a built in speech recognition and OS5 could be a SI-FI vet dream.

Hi Amiga how are you doing?
-Wait…Every test seems fine exept. S.M.A.R.T report slight degradation of DH3.
Good,  fire up the browser and head to Amiga.org
-All rightie then!

But this is nothing to joke about because, it’s small thing like that, that make you prefer something.  :-)

[downix]

JuvUK wrote:
fair enough, but surely whichever cpu you decide on you are going to end up tied to it in one way or another, and as we've seen, intel is able to weather storms for longer than AMD could hold out, as for a GPU surely that should be a nvidea chip? yet another tie in, but surely the way to go?

No, now you have two vendors to worry about going under or causing issues with your supply chain.  AMD+ATI means 1 stop shopping, one vendor to worry about, one vendor to get license agreements with, one vendor to pay attention to.  AMD is going nowhere.  With 1/20th the cash of Intel, it has 20% of the market.  That is one hell of a return on investment.  That is also a sign of how solid the company underneath is.  

I personally wouldn't choose an x86, but if you insist on it, at least use the supply company with the most transparency and best total solution provided.  Intel cannot fill all pieces of the system, AMD can.  (VIA can as well, but they're not quite up there at this time)

[DavidF215]

@CodeSmith

Regarding NatAmi, I would think for it to have any commercial significance it needs to be licensed; otherwise, what happens when the number of legal copies of AmigaOS 3.x are gone. A license with Amiga, Inc would enable production of additional AmigaOS licenses.

I remember when the IBM PC was proprietary and reverse engineered by Compaq, I think. Microsoft came along and provided an OS for the new clone. If the project is wanting to repeat this, it might be tricky because times are a little different legally and Companies are suing more frequently for copy attempts.

Even if it was successful, a new name would need to be created because Amiga is a registered name, and I presume NatAmi would be the new name. Plus, the system will need a true AmigaOS that is updated from an original.

IMO the project, once the development version is ready to ship, should contact Amiga, Inc for a license, and it should be presented by someone with good diplomatic and negotiation skills to ensure the project succeeds. I would think that if NatAmi was successfully prototyped and had a list of committed developers as well as other customers, then Amiga, Inc would grant a license in time.

The Amiga market has been fractured enough, and NatAmi, along with the other projects, need to work together with the Parent holder of the technology to further enhance the Brand. Otherwise, noone is going to profit from it as has been the track record over the last decade or two--I'm sure I don't have to start naming Companies and attempts. Five to ten percent of a cooperative, successful Brand is better than 100% of a fractured market that simply struggles just to survive.

The NatAmi sounds like a good project that has potential. In the least it can serve as a bridge between the old technology and the new technology (whatever the new becomes). The only obstacle that I see in the future would be converging the NatAmi technology with the AmigaOS4 PPC code.

[mikrucio]

what you are talking about has already been made!

except instead of Commodore it was made by Sony,
and instead of Amiga it says Playstation 3.

[A6000]

DavidF215 wrote:
IMO the project, once the development version is ready to ship, should contact Amiga, Inc for a license. I would think that if NatAmi was successfully prototyped and had a list of committed developers as well as other customers, then Amiga, Inc would grant a license in time.

No, they won't, Amiga Inc will not under any circumstances, grant any Amiga licenses. They are determined to kill the Amiga, why?, I don't know, maybe some other company is paying them to do it, I cannot see how they would benefit otherwise.

When Natami runs out of OS 3.9, they could either sell it without an OS, since we all have several already, or bundle AROS68k with it.

[Jpan1]

Thanks for the info @ cicero790,
~Ultra Hal looks basic but cool in it's infant form!
'Humanizing' the New Amiga would definitely give it more appeal, for the home user computer market.

'Now, Hal how about a nice game of chess'?
- oops wrong film!
  ;-)

[Atheist]

DavidF215 wrote:

@CodeSmith

Regarding NatAmi, I would think for it to have any commercial significance it needs to be licensed; otherwise, what happens when the number of legal copies of AmigaOS 3.x are gone. A license with Amiga, Inc would enable production of additional AmigaOS licenses.

Hi DavidF215,

I believe there are an infinite amount of AOS3.9's available. Doesn't every copy of Amiga Forever come with a full, byte for byte copy of AOS3.9? What you run it on is your business.

Anyway, there are over 5 million AOS roms out there, as long as you own one, you are entitled to some version of AOS, that gives NatAmi60 at least 2 years of production. :-D