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AuthorTopic: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.  (Read 7601 times)

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Offline redrumloa

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Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« on: August 21, 2003, 05:54:04 PM »
Quote
I should also like to remind the community, and those users of the Amiga Operating System, that the End User License Agreement clearly states that the license for use is only valid, on Amiga branded machines. Therefore if the Amiga operating system is being used on a non-Amiga branded machine the use would be prohibited.


I'm affraid this is factually inacurate. < = OS3.1 has no EULA whatsoever. OS3.5 doesn't mention what it is to be run on and has an option to register for UAE. OS3.9 even has an option to 'Install Emulation'. If I get the time later I will make some screenshots.

So what the heck is Bill talking about? Is it pure fantasy or just what he wishes it stated? Also any potential EULA for 3.5 and 3.9 would be the result of and responsible by H&P, not AI right? They are not a product of and not owned by AI to this day AFAIK. Sour grapes?

BTW this thread will stay clean, I will use a heavy hand if needed. State your opinion no matter what it is just no insults or flames.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2003, 05:57:39 PM »
The most important thing about the EULA discussion, in my opinion,
is the fact that Amiga, Inc's president apparantly knows what a EULA is,
and thinks that a EULA that protects a brand is enforceable and a legal concept.

This is in very STARK CONTRAST, to the fanbase, who believes it is legal in
'their' country, to ignore a EULA, to install Mac OS X at will.

They believe EULA's are unenforceable and invalid legal concepts.

Now, I have made a HUGE POINT of this...and REPEATEDLY....breaking a EULA...and in the case of Mac OS X, there is no dispute the EULA exists and is clear...is PIRACY.

I made a point of this, for one reason.... I knew this day would come....people, you reap what you sow.

Honesty is the best policy.....
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2003, 06:00:09 PM »
@Marktime

But there is no EULA, or at least not in the way Bill stated it.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline Coder

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2003, 06:01:15 PM »
Hi,

I think that what Bill means is the whole issue about OS4 being able to run on Pegasos hardware. Better said, OS4 "cracked" to run on Pegasos hardware.

Coder
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Offline MarkTime

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2003, 06:02:29 PM »
Yes, there may not be a EULA at all on Amiga OS 3.9...but perhaps he was referring to Amiga OS 4.0 which is not released...

it will probably have a EULA....in any case, I am making a slightly different point about EULA's....

there may be a lot to discuss about whether his statement was clear or valid, or a EULA even exists...

but the statement makes it clear he does believe EULA's are enforceable, and therefore the not-so-covert sponsored attempts to break Apple's EULA are clearly understood to be illegal by certain parties.
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2003, 06:03:54 PM »
@Coder

Maybe so, if so his wording is terible. How could he be reminding us about a EULA that probably hasn't been written yet by a company other than his own for a product not yet released? :-?
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline Coder

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2003, 06:08:15 PM »
@Red

Quote
Maybe so, if so his wording is terible.


Was "confusing" not Bill's middle name? I think the idea behind words like that is that in the end it can be explained in a thousand ways. A neat way to say "covering our ass." Done by a lot. :-)

Coder
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Offline downix

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2003, 06:08:17 PM »
@Marktime

By apple's EULA, you can't run Mac OS X on Apple-built machines.  I would note, I do not run Mac OS X, even tho I do have a desire to, due to the over-restrictive nature of it's EULA.  I find it sad, honestly, that Apple cannot manage to stop treating it's customers like criminals.
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Offline lempkee

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2003, 06:19:02 PM »
hold your horses for a min..

i think u guys missed something here,
the deal is about "SELLING and ADVERTISING" , ie thats what is illegal,... aint it?

an example would be..

Pegasos 2 , runs morphos 2.x , Amiga Os4 , mac os X , and linux bla ?

aint it? ...hmm stop me if i am wrong.

my point is , genesi wouldnt be allowed to crack a os to work on their hw, that is illegal no matter what , or?

but running macosx on a amigaone/linux/pegasos aint breaking the eula...right? , as long as the machine aint marketed (like a certain website at this very moment) with alot of os's .

a last bit , why is os3.x needed for pegasos , and why does genesi want to liscense this ?
(since they allready claimed it is amiga api compatible) .

sorry for the sidetracks but i really want to get some answers here , i have my own opinions and i have a bigger experience with pegasos (my closest neighbour have one) and he have his opinions..

Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline lempkee

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2003, 06:22:02 PM »
whats the story on...

i went and bought mac osX today , i dont have a mac but the people in the shop didnt ask me either.

will i break the eula if i did this?



Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline bhoggett

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2003, 06:24:35 PM »
@red

From the OS 3.9 licensing agreement:

"This License allows you to to install and use the Amiga Software on a single Amiga-labelled or Amiga-licensed computer at a time."

...

"This license allows you to install or operate the Amiga Software only on a computer system that had a version of Amiga OS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system."

So, I think that McEwen reference to the EULA is a fair and resonable one in view of Bill Buck's voiced intention to bundle OS 3.9 with pegasos.

@MarkTime

Your stance is correct, of course, except that no EULA can ever suspend a purchaser's statutory rights as defined by the law of the country that purchaser lives in. It is often the case that EULAs contain clauses which are illegal in the country the product is sold to.

This is not to say that people should ignore EULAs where they are perfectly valid, even when the clauses are ridiculous in most people's views.

(My comment has nothing to to with the Amiga or Apple EULAs in particular)
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2003, 06:33:53 PM »
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
@red

From the OS 3.9 licensing agreement:

"This License allows you to to install and use the Amiga Software on a single Amiga-labelled or Amiga-licensed computer at a time."

...

"This license allows you to install or operate the Amiga Software only on a computer system that had a version of Amiga OS installed on it at the time you acquired such computer system."

So, I think that McEwen reference to the EULA is a fair and resonable one in view of Bill Buck's voiced intention to bundle OS 3.9 with pegasos.



OK I stand somewhat corrected. So how is it that OS3.9 has a 'Install Emulation' feature? Kind of backwards isn't it?
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline DethKnight

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2003, 06:38:17 PM »
@lempkee

Quote
will i break the eula if i did this?


only if you installed it and/or ran it on a non-apple-mac

BUT this wouldn't make you a pirate

to be a pirate you must do one of the following
a>steal the software (not pay currency  for it)
b>redistribute/copy  the software (without license to do so)
c>hold things/people for ransom,  fly the jolly roger etc..

BUT, if you install macOS X on a non-apple-mac,
you are definitely in breach of a contract.
You could get sued for breach of contract (here anyway), but you have not committed piracy



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Offline Step

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2003, 06:38:57 PM »
I must confess i am still at 3.1 so i dont really know how things are in the updated world, but since i cant run some older (a500 etc) stuff, an emulation could perhaps be wanted, or something like that...
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Offline Lando

Re: Adult conversation about this whole EULA issue.
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2003, 06:40:39 PM »
There is a EULA on both 3.5 and 3.9 (in the license directory on the CD - it's an AmigaGuide file)

It says you are allowed to install and use the software on "one single Amiga-labelled or Amiga-licensed computer at a time", also that you must not distribute it across a network, use it in a nuclear power station, air traffic control situation, etc...

Anyone using AmigaOS 3.5 or 3.9 under emulation (eg. on a PC, Mac, or Pegasos), is breaking the EULA, UNLESS they are using it on an AmigaOne running linux (as this is an Amiga-licensed computer) or they are using the OS 3.9 that came with Amithlon / AmigaOS XL (as this version has a modified EULA to allow use on non-Amiga branded computers).

So, if you are running UAE, and want to keep Bill McEwen happy, you would be well advised to stick to WB3.1.

Or, you could just ignore him.

Personally I'll carry on using AmigaOS 3.9 on my Mac running MaxUAE, and maybe my Pegasos too when I get around to it.

I paid for the damn OS and I'm gonna use it.