What is a 640x400 LCD TV supposed to do with higher resolutions ?

[arkpandora]

@gwyche

University is a past concern for me (girls are not yet hopefully).

The Samsung 2032MW's scan doubler is a flicker-fixer as well, so that interlaced PAL screens don't flicker as a whole.  But on my copy the result is so bad that I find a flickering screen more natural and pleasant ; you can preview this result in Hodgkinson's video.  Not all LCD TVs have a flicker fixer obviously.

A driver is not required even on the Amiga, unless you can't manage to make your computer display the right screen mode.  If the screen stays black, then one has to try another screen mode.  Or it means that the monitor is unable to display the computer's screen mode(s), in which case drivers won't change anything.  I think that today monitors have some sort of ROM that contains the informations that in the past you had to give the computer in the form of a driver ; if your setup is recent enough, the computer should be able to detect these informations.

Before you ask : "PIP" means "Picture in Picture", a special mode some TV/monitors are equipped with, which allows a video input to be shown in a window over the VGA input.


@Hodgkinson

That's right : maybe LCD "TV" that are not marketed as "monitors" have better video inputs and worse VGA inputs than the others, and vice versa.  Then I have to give up the hope of having only one - and reasonably small - screen on my desk.

[gwyche]

@ arkpandora

Sorry to be dense, but if the screen stays black how can you do ANYTHING?

I was not with this guy when he tried to hook it up to his A3000 with Cybervision3D. I take him at his word. Stayed black. Hmmm. I assume that even if you don't connect it to anything at all, that some box, at least, shows up saying "No Signal Detected" or the like.

I suppose I could take my CRT over to his house (he lives about 20Km away) so we could set some trial resolution, then switch over to the LCD and see if it works. Keep trying different ones.

Oh yes, he emailed today to say that the one he got (and returned already!) was
--------------------------------------------------
 a Samsung Model 2253BW 22" LCD with 8000 to 1 contrast ratio, 2ms response time, 1680 x 1050 resolution, and VGA + DVI.
--------------------------------------------------

ggw

[gwyche]

@ Hodgkinson

This behemoth is what I have lugged more than I have ever wanted to. I'm
glad it finally got soooooo dim I begged for a replacement (only to get another gigantic CRT, not quite as heavy).

You shame me with your willingness to make internal changes to resistors to keep the contrast useful on your CRTs at home.

My mentor counciled me to NEVER work on CRT (TVs), because I would be inundated with TV problems from people (friends!). He said it was like owning a pickup truck.

I think I have enough information to begin weeding through the LCD monitor/TV offerings here in Austin, TX.

ggw

[Hodgkinson]

:pint: :lol:
Re the huge Sony I mentioned, we've only persevered with it because we got the monitor free (And the fault came with it free as well...).

Apart from that its one of the largest (Screen size, not sheer bulk) and highest quality monitors that we have :-D
Oh, im and my dad's worked in the TV trade for some years, so that kinda helps.

We've just scrapped off 5 older 13"/15" CRT monitors the other day, most in working condition, due to the sheer lack of space in the garage. Another 3 to go still...If anyone in the UK wants one for parts be my guest. Just Pmail me and pick them up (Some have dry joints, etc, others work fine).

Hodgkinson.

[arkpandora]

@gwyche

Well, if the screen stays black, definitely you can't do anything, including installing drivers, so that drivers don't make a difference.  However, if you have a spare monitor that works, you may select other screen modes then try them on the black monitor.  If no standard screen mode works (a 31 KHz 60 Hz 640x400 or 800x600 screen mode should always work), then a driver may be useful, since it would select compatible screen modes for you.  But if no standard screen mode works, it probably means that the monitor is not compatible with the computer for some reason, and probably a driver would not help.

[gwyche]

@ arkpandora

A reasonable summation of the situation.

Thanks.
For closure I'll report back if he ever gets a LCD to work.

ggw

[Hodgkinson]

Re the Samsung 2032MW, i've just noticed that, occasionally, maybe once an hour or so, the monitor seems to loose sync for a split second. I’m still using SCART RGB and Super-High res interlaced PAL, and the loss-of-sync was noticed with a completely static WB screen.

Just wondered if anyone else might have noticed this?

Hodgkinson.

[arkpandora]

Just wondered if anyone else might have noticed this?

Your British phlegm is adorable.  Well, you're just adding another flaw on top of the pile.

My computer shop has given me my Samsung back, saying that in their opinion every problem is normal so that Samsung would probably not accept any exchange, and that I shouldn't have ordered such a bad monitor.

OK, following your example, I will stay calm, give this piece of TV to my little sister, and find something else (but not before trying the PIP through SCART - I will let you know).

[Hodgkinson]

I've just uploaded a photo of my attempt at making a really decent pair of composite and RF leads. They might show up in a hour or so.

EDIT: Ah ha. Its online here.

[gwyche]

@ Hodgkinson

Bravo! Good piece of work.

I can imagine what an attempt on my part to make such a beautifully constructed cable would look like!

ggw

[gwyche]

@ arkpandora

Showing my provincialism here, I nearly sputtered my beer out my nose in laughter when I read your opening statement.

In these parts (Austin, TX) phlegm is the crud you cough up when you have had a bad cold!

My better educated wife alerted me to your meaning... before I reached the clarifying 3rd paragraph.

I definitely will not allow our club member to get a 2032.

ggw

[Hodgkinson]

It means the same here, too.

I had to check in a online dictionary to find the true meaning. And im British :crazy:

On that basis, thanks for the kind comment arkpandora!

Hodgkinson.

[arkpandora]

Funny misunderstanding : I had forgotten this medical meaning although both are linked by the same word in my native French too.  But in French this meaning is less common than the other, as we more often refer to the British than the latter to themselves.

[Hyperspeed]

Hello folks, long time no post!

I bought a Samsung monitor from Woolworths just over a year ago and VGA, SCART and composite were all rubbish in native Amiga modes. This is not the Microvitec-substitute of the LCD world.

In fact, I have never come across an LCD monitor worth using on PAL/NTSC screenmodes - surely this can't be that hard for manufacturers such as Philips/NEC?

I think probably the crispest display for OCS/ECS/AGA Amiga owners will still be the Microvitec 1437/1564/1701 CRT monitors.

[arkpandora]

Hi,

Thanks for this information.

Which Amiga screen modes have you tested in VGA ?  Can you tell what is wrong with them ?  Doesn't VGA at least give better results than SCART ?

If the Microvitec monitors are the best video CRT monitors, nevertheless I have to note that to my knowledge _any_ common video CRT monitor will give incomparably superior picture than a Samsung 2032MW LCD monitor through SCART.  And I don't even take the resolution upscaling into consideration.

[Hodgkinson]

I just fired up Term 4.7 today and whoa, the 2032MW really doesn't like it in the current screen mode (PAL Interlaced SCART). The sync is completely messed up - The screen is jumping around all over the place and seems to have a tendency to sit half-way across the screen, with the frame blank in the middle. As for composite it’s stable, but the frame blank is still in the middle of the screen and it’s accompanied by a rainbow pattern at the edges of the frame blank and flashing diagonal lines. The RF mode may as well as be white noise.

Might just be Term, but Term worked fine on the 15" PC CRT I used to use (Multiscan Productivity, 640 x ? screen size)

If someone else could try Term out (From Aminet) on a 2032MW I’d be interested to hear what it looks like.

Hodgkinson.