Why is Morphos considered by many as the 'new Amiga OS' ?

[Piru]

@bloodline

the point is that all three are equally valid.

They are equally valid assuming you are not interested in running OS friendly apps at all.

If you are, AROS is (currently) falling behind. AROS is boldly talking about "in progress" components as if they already were finished. Integration might make it less sucky, but it remains to be seen how integrated it ends up to be. Also, the amigaos requirement isn't going away that easily (the KS replacement is quite large task, just all the compatibility testing and hacking will be total nightmare).

[motorollin]

Krusher wrote:

motorollin wrote:
But remember that for all of them, there is currently only one solution for full classic compatibility: UAE. And I bet when AROS gets UAE integration, it will gain a LOT more popularity.

Wake me up when that's finished, I'd be happy to dual boot that on x86 native. As of yet, Aros is pointless to me. And I've never used MOS so I can't comment on that.

I somewhat agree. For me Amiga is all about classic. So until AROS has full classic support, it is of limited interest to me personally, though I can see that an open-source AmigaOS clone is an important development for the community. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that AROS has not yet come close to its potential. I really look forward to seeing where it goes next, and hopefully one day to using it regularly.

Unfortunately I came to the same conclusions about MorphOS, which I used for a while when I owned a PegII. When I sat down and thought about it I realised that everything I was doing under MorphOS could be done on my A4000 under OS3.9, and eventually the PegII fell in to disuse and was sold.

Again, remember that this is just my opinion of these alternatives from the perspective of a classic enthusiast, not a comment on the general usefulness of the solutions in question.

--
moto

[Piru]

@motorollin

Good point there. For someone who is only interested in running the classic amiga apps and playing games, WinUAE (or real amiga HW if emulation is not your thing) is clearly the best solution.

MorphOS obviously isn't solution to everyone's needs, and it doesn't try to be.

[Fab12]

And for those who really want to move on and take AmigaOS to the next level, AROS is the answer.

Erm, for those who want to take amigaos to the previous previous previous level you mean. AROS needs to have some 68k emulation (but not in that "UAE integration" way), but above all it needs to really *work* first and be a lot more polished that it is now. At the moment it really feels unfinished in most places (prefs, desktop, drivers...) and less functional than 3.1.

But remember that for all of them, there is currently only one solution for full classic compatibility: UAE. And I bet when AROS gets UAE integration, it will gain a LOT more popularity.

I'm impatient to see how it will be implemented. Some simple integration (which already exists on mos for instance, where you can just doubleclick on a 68k app or adf/hdf image through a special ambient contextmenu entry) is acceptable for games/demos/fullscreen apps, but for system applications (ibrowse, anr, ftp clients, ...) it would just suck very badly, since it doesn't provide full interaction and coherence with the host system.

[bloodline]

Piru wrote:
@bloodline

the point is that all three are equally valid.

They are equally valid assuming you are not interested in running OS friendly apps at all.

If you are, AROS is (currently) falling behind. AROS is boldly talking about "in progress" components as if they already were finished. Integration might make it less sucky, but it remains to be seen how integrated it ends up to be. Also, the amigaos requirement isn't going away that easily (the KS replacement is quite large task, just all the compatibility testing and hacking will be total nightmare).

Of course you are correct, but as I stated earlier... my Classic Amiga requirements are very heavily reliant upon the old amiga hardware.

As I was involved in the discussions regarding the requirements for UAE integration, it will meet my needs :-)

You are also correct about the scale of the KS task, and frankly that makes is so much more exciting... far more than finding a solution for running ibrowse without the need for my A1200 or UAE* :-)


*apologies for the facetiousness of this sentence.

[itix]

Which AROS can be since it will use UAE as it's default legacy support. But MOS and AOS4 running on non "Amiga Classic' will also require UAE to achieve the same, though UAE won't be integrated and WILL require AmigaOS (or a 68k version of AROS ).

Would be cool to send DOS packets from 68k application to x86 native filesystem via PutMsg() interface. I just hope user is not attempting to run old Amiga demo that takes control over system because when x86 filesystem responds to my DOS packet there is nobody left.

Oops.

How this is going to work, in real?

[bloodline]

itix wrote:

Which AROS can be since it will use UAE as it's default legacy support. But MOS and AOS4 running on non "Amiga Classic' will also require UAE to achieve the same, though UAE won't be integrated and WILL require AmigaOS (or a 68k version of AROS ).

Would be cool to send DOS packets from 68k application to x86 native filesystem via PutMsg() interface. I just hope user is not attempting to run old Amiga demo that takes control over system because when x86 filesystem responds to my DOS packet there is nobody left.

Oops.

How this is going to work, in real?

I'm not sure I understand the example...

A 68k OS legal app make a filesystem request... and then mid way through the operation the user decides to run a Hardware hitting Demo (which would probaby needa reboot?)... am I right? I don't understand.

[Tripitaka]

IMHO I have allways considered that the true Amiga spirit was in the combination of OS and hardware. I grinned as pc owners failed to get software working on generic boxes, knowing full well that my latest software would work without a hitch because it was made for my exact chipset. I laughed as I plugged in new hardware and it worked first time instead of shouting out IRQ conflicts.
The Amiga was console and computer, toy and tool in one.
To me now, SAM is the most exciting hardware in some ways, but it's not even got an Amiga-ish OS yet.
I don't see how anyone can moan about so called "alternative" Amiga OS's however, I see it like this: If MorphOS and AROS have advantages over OS4 then that only helps apply pressure to improve OS4, so it helps us all.
Oh, In case anyone missed it, our "official" OS should be OS5 should it not? Shame that there is no version for Amiga hardware, lol. Space invaders anyone?

[itix]

@bloodline

I'm not sure I understand the example...

I tend to complicate my thoughts. Lets simplify ideas and check step one:

Will x86 native applications and 68k native applications share the same address space?

[bloodline]

itix wrote:
@bloodline

I'm not sure I understand the example...

I tend to complicate my thoughts. Lets simplify ideas and check step one:

Will x86 native applications and 68k native applications share the same address space?

No. They will be separate.

-Edit- Ok, I understand where you are going with this :-)

[pVC]

bloodline wrote:
Like Linux compiled for the PPC doesn't run software compiled for Linux on the x86... I don't see a difference.

I see a HUGE difference. Linux software is usually open source and you can compile them to whatever you like, but Amiga software is mostly closed and in most cases the sources have been already lost during the years. So there's no way to get them compiled on other platform.

And as native programs, there simply isn't enough on new generation OS'es. Not on AROS, not on MOS, not on OS4. You have to fall back on original Amiga programs a lot.

[itix]

@bloodline

No. They will be separate.

-Edit- Ok, I understand where you are going with this :-)

Good :-)

Now, when you are going to run hardware banging demos, where you need UAE integration? With little scripting you could run Amiga demos from Wanderer now. Isnt it more reasonable than wait for EUAE integration? :-)

Especially since they might need special options like no fast ram, 68000 CPU, Kickstart 1.3 and so on.

When it comes to OS friendly applications (OS friendly application can still bang HW) can you truly integrate 68k applications to the hosting operating system (little endian AROS on x86) ? To me integration means that I can run IBrowse 2.4 in AROS like it was x86 native application.

[dammy]

When it comes to OS friendly applications (OS friendly application can still bang HW) can you truly integrate 68k applications to the hosting operating system (little endian AROS on x86) ? To me integration means that I can run IBrowse 2.4 in AROS like it was x86 native application.

I'd say that would be pretty close to my own personal definition of integration.  We shall see what EvilRich can do with the initial phase and if it falls short, we can always start an improvement bounty.  Of course the traveller should be finished prior to EvilRich's deadline.

Dammy
TeamAROS

[Einstein]

Piru wrote:

You can always run EUAE on MorphOS, too, if you must.

Realize the purpose of the amount of dollars assigned to the *integrated* EUAE is not to declare EUAE as existing.  :-)

[Einstein]

edited  :-D

[pVC]

Unfortunately I came to the same conclusions about MorphOS, which I used for a while when I owned a PegII. When I sat down and thought about it I realised that everything I was doing under MorphOS could be done on my A4000 under OS3.9, and eventually the PegII fell in to disuse and was sold.

Only thing that it's massively faster I'm running classic Amiga and Peg1 daily and with some programs, the speed on Peg1 is very welcome. I'm also watching lots of movies on Peg and couldn't do it on classic.

For me, the MorphOS is a possibility to continue being true Amiga user without need to get Windows, Mac or any other completely different platform for tasks needing the raw processing power.