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Author Topic: Zorro III USB - Deneb  (Read 18056 times)

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Offline Nlandas

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #89 from previous page: May 11, 2008, 06:01:41 PM »
Quote

Jose wrote:
Hi.

"Well from what I read with -11 you can only have one DMA device on the bus. So for the A4000T it'll have to use PIO mode since the built on SCSI uses that. "

NO! If you have an A4000T chances are you already have an accelerator with a scsi2 controler (3 if the CyberstormPPC) so you can just disable the onboard scsi2 controler for ZIIIDMA with the Deneb.


YES! You're assuming that someone has turned off the onboard SCSI which of course negates that it is doing DMA on the zorro bus. But that's assuming and my statement was "with the onboard SCSI you have to use PIO with the Deneb" which still holds true.

You could just as easily have said - "NO! I have an A4000D with SuperBuster 9 so I can have two DMA cards." :lol:

...either way it doesn't negate what I said.  :roll:

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Offline Matt_HTopic starter

Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #90 on: May 11, 2008, 08:56:18 PM »
Quote

sandpiper wrote:
Quote
It's more the cheap soundcards (no need to pay £50 for a Toccata)


Interesting. I see in the press release that there is a new audio class for AHI. I wonder if it would be possible to play mp3s without loading the cpu?
 

AHI has nothing to do with MP3 decoding, so DMA USB sound is of no use there. It's generally mpega.library or, if you're lucky, an mpeg.device (delfina, cd32), that does the heavy lifting for MP3s.

The Deneb's high transfer speeds probably benefit AHI's CPU usage in general, but someone still needs to write a usbaudiompeg.device for CPU-less MP3 playback. And the USB sound dongle needs to support such a thing. :-) It's the same reason the Melody, Toccata, AD516, etc. can't offload the CPU for MP3 playback - the latter has no driver and the other two, I think, don't have the necessary hardware on the board.
 

Offline Matt_HTopic starter

Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #91 on: May 11, 2008, 09:05:27 PM »
@ sandpiper

Re: Subway

Take a look at the benchmarks on E3B's site. There's a big difference between speeds on the Subway and speeds on the Deneb.
 

Offline mbrantley

Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2008, 08:43:08 PM »
Got one ordered from Amigakit today for my 4000. Love seeing new "kit" for the classic hardware.
 

Offline amigakit

Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2008, 08:50:30 PM »
Thank you- much appreciated.
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Offline platon42

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2008, 10:10:45 PM »
Quote

sandpiper wrote:
Quote
It's more the cheap soundcards (no need to pay £50 for a Toccata)


Interesting. I see in the press release that there is a new audio class for AHI. I wonder if it would be possible to play mp3s without loading the cpu?
 


While the USB Audio does provide stream types for that kind of playback, I'm pretty sure you won't get your hands on a USB soundcard that provides for this, as 99,9% of the usb soundcards are pure PCM devices for already decoded data. So you unfortunately still have the CPU load for decoding -- the same (actually a bit less due to Zorro III access) as with other Zorro soundcards without DSP or mp3 hardware decoder.
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Offline platon42

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2008, 10:17:17 PM »
Quote

sandpiper wrote:
Couple of questions...

1. I ordered a Deneb for my A3000. How much power can be supplied to the Deneb from the ZIII bus? Is it safe to power mice, keyboards, thumb drives without external power?

2. I have a Subway in an A2500/060. I am quite happy with it. Would there be any advantages in upgrading to Deneb? From reading available information it looks like fast USB 2 speeds aren't possible in ZII space.


1. The A3000 usually supplies 2.0A per Zorro slot AFAIR -- enough for powering three bus powered devices at 500mA each.

2. Speed. The Deneb is *a lot* faster (> 2 MB/sec for Zorro II) than the Subway (you get more data per CPU cycle :-) ). Also, no CPU consumption when idle (or waiting interrupt transfers). The Deneb supports realtime ISO transfers and therefore allows USB Audio and a new Webcam driver to work. You also get the 4MB of flashrom ;-) These are the main benefits.
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Offline Boot_WB

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2008, 10:19:39 PM »
@Platon42

Chris, just wondering about the following scenario:

I'm intending to have a USB>NIC adapter, and a USB>SATA adapter attached to the Deneb when it arrives.

If I'm downloading a large file from the internet, onto the SATA drive, what will be the limiting factor on the download speeds?

Will the transfer be via zorro and memory:

NIC > Deneb > Zorro bus > memory followed by Memory > Zorro bus > Deneb > SATA ?

or will the transfers be direct between the two devices?

NIC > Deneb > SATA ?

I do not pretend to have your and Michael's level of expertise, but as this will affect transfer speeds in this situation, I'm curious to know.

Thanks



Rich
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Offline platon42

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2008, 10:26:10 PM »
Quote

Boot_WB wrote:

I'd be interested to know what the transfer speed from USB Ethernet to a Deneb mounted hard drive would be. Does it bypass Amiga memory completely? Can it achieve 100Mb/s ethernet transfer speeds? Are USB gigabit lan adapters supported?


TCPSpeed between my Amiga (060, PIO mode) and Pegasos 2 with MiamiDx on both machines: 800KB/sec in both directions with ASIX Ethernet adapter for 20 EUR.

The CPU is the bottleneck here. I haven't tried other TCP/IP stacks than MiamiDX, which is said to be much slower than other stacks. For USB packet generation, the ethernet frame itself needs to be assembled in memory first before being sent to the USB card. SANA2/Poseidon API lacks here a bit regarding buffer assembly inside the RAM of the controller. There are a few Gigabit Adapters with ASIX Chipsets aswell, but you won't get much over 10MBit/sec speed, and not even close to what is achievable with Gigabit controllers. Of course.
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Offline platon42

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2008, 10:31:22 PM »
Quote

Boot_WB wrote:
@Platon42

Chris, just wondering about the following scenario:

I'm intending to have a USB>NIC adapter, and a USB>SATA adapter attached to the Deneb when it arrives.

If I'm downloading a large file from the internet, onto the SATA drive, what will be the limiting factor on the download speeds?

Will the transfer be via zorro and memory:

NIC > Deneb > Zorro bus > memory followed by Memory > Zorro bus > Deneb > SATA ?

or will the transfers be direct between the two devices?

NIC > Deneb > SATA ?

I do not pretend to have your and Michael's level of expertise, but as this will affect transfer speeds in this situation, I'm curious to know.


The transfer will go like this:

NIC > Deneb Driver (Zorro to memory) > Poseidon Library > ethernet.class (frame unwrapping, memory to memory) > TCP/IP stack (PPPoE > TCP Decoding (memory to memory)) > Application (possibly buffering) > Filesystem (possibly buffering) > usbscsi.device > Poseidon Library > Deneb Driver (memory to Zorro) > SATA

There is no way I could tell the Application that the data from the NIC should go back to the SATA device, especially because the file system only knows where to write it and the TCP/IP stack needs to decode the ethernet frames (and also doing those expensive 1-complement CRC checksums).

In your example the TCP/IP stack would be the limiting factor.
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Offline Boot_WB

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2008, 10:39:01 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply, I don't know enough about TCP to realise this myself.

I was thinking along the lines that once a request for (for example) a file has been sent, the data being received could simply be sent to (for example) a hard drive.

On reflection, I suppose that since data is received in packets it makes sense that the TCP stack would have to receive, reassemble and direct these packets to the appropriate location (memory or hard drive).

Thanks for the info



Rich
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Offline Darrin

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2008, 11:31:10 PM »
OK, here's a handy looking gizmo:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2329300&sku=M501-1220&SRCCODE=WEBBP655

Does anyone see any reason why this wouldn't work with the Deneb to read from old Amiga 2.5"/3.5" IDE drives and/or copy an OS installation back to one?

It should work for connecting a SATA drive too... and only $20.

How about using it with WinUAE for coonecting a real Amiga HD to a PC?
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline sandpiper

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Re: Zorro III USB - Deneb
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2008, 03:40:50 AM »
@platon42,

Thanks for your replies. Looks like after I get the Deneb going in my A3000, I'll be considering one for my A2500.

@Matt_H,

Thanks for you replies too. I've found the benchmarks you were referring to.