Zorro III USB - Deneb

[arnljot]

@mboehmer_e3b

I used google translate on some of your comments on a1k.org:

DMA on Zorro III is dependent on the remaining machine configuration and is not at all guaranteed configurations (depending on the specific Buster revision and other existing DMA devices).

Can you examplify setups that will cause DMA not to work ?

PIV, CVPPC, Buster11, A2065, Prelude = Will any of these cause DMA not to work?

[Nlandas]

arnljot wrote:

motorollin wrote:
No, I wasn't kidding. I want to secure one of these cards and support the developers with the money a pre-order would provide.

E3B and Platon has a proven track record. I would also trust them if they offered preorders through AmigaKit.

I want to be sure that I get one, I'd kick myself if I was order 101, on a batch of 100 cards...

I would also want to pre-order a Deneb. Any chance e3B will be doing it though AmigaKit? I'm there.

-Nyle

[Phantom]

At least we know that Deneb card is at the last steps to finish up. I really want one too. A lot of people asks about pre-ordering, so how about one? And what about the price? Keep up the good work.

[mboehmer_e3b]

Can you examplify setups that will cause DMA not to work ?

Buster 7: no DMA at all

Buster 9: several Zorro III busmasters possible, but only with workaround (aka Fastlane).

Buster 11: only one active Zorro III busmaster.

Zorro III busmasters are:
- A3000T/A4000T internal SCSI controller (unfortunately)
- any DMA card like A4091 and Fastlane Z3
- Deneb

Only Zorro III busmasters with Buster 9 workaround: Fastlane Z3 and Deneb.

So: internal SCSI on A3000T/A4000T is a pitfall!

DMA examples:
- A4000D, A4091, Buster 9/11, Deneb
- A4000T, no internal SCSI, Buster 11, Deneb

no DMA examples:
- A4000T, internal SCSI in use, Buster 9/11, Deneb
- A4000T, no internal SCSI in use, Buster 11, A4091, Deneb

Non-DMA Zorro III cards do not influence the DMA systems, neither do CPU port turbo cards with own SCSI controller.

Michael

[mboehmer_e3b]

I would also want to pre-order a Deneb. Any chance e3B will be doing it though AmigaKit? I'm there.

It's nice to see that so many people do really trust us - but we won't do any preorder business.

E3B takes the risk until the production is done, and won't outsource the risk to its customers.

Michael

[Doraemon]

The Deneb card have a Flash to put the kick modules like in the romulus or Algor Usb???
Will be nice a sollution to make a easy dual or triple boot system with that flash.
Now its hard to boot os4 / os3.9 / mos in the same system.
Sorry for my bad english but I hope that you can understand the idea.

[mboehmer_e3b]

The Deneb card have a Flash to put the kick modules like in the romulus or Algor Usb???

The Deneb does include FlashROM for user applications, besides the FPGA boot FlashROM.

Michael

[adolescent]

mboehmer_e3b wrote:

DMA examples:
- A4000D, A4091, Buster 9/11, Deneb
- A4000T, no internal SCSI, Buster 11, Deneb

A couple of questions.

All documentation I have says that A4091 only works with Buster 11.  (My A4091 was packaged with a Buster 11 which seems to back this up.)  Is this not true?

Isn't the A4091 and A4000T onboard SCSI functionally the same?  If so, why would it work on the A4000D with A4091 and not the A4000T?

Same question for the A3000 as I have had the A4091 in there, although I only had a CD-ROM on the internal SCSI.

[Argus]

I think Michael made a slight mistake w/ regard to Rev.9 Buster and an A4091.  The 4091 won't work at all w/o a Rev.11 Buster in the A3000 or A4000 desktops.  When said card is installed with a Rev.11 in these desktop versions; you can't install a Deneb and operate it in DMA mode.  You'd have to use the PIO mode as the 4091 operates as the sole Zorro III busmaster.  I think he meant to say the Rev.11 only allows one DMA Zorro III Busmaster, either an A4091, Fastlane or Deneb.  If you have a Rev.9 Buster, you can operate a Fastlane and a Deneb in DMA mode because the Rev.9 chip allows more than one Busmaster and both the Fastlane and the Deneb have workarounds to allow for Rev.9 and the conflict problem (though your mileage may vary).

The A4000T is different because it implements the A4091 on the m/b and there is an additional busmastering conflict as a result, which prevents use of the Deneb whatsoever in DMA mode (and maybe even PIO mode, though I'm not certain).  Since all A4000Ts also have Rev.11, even if you don't use the on-board SCSI controller, they again allow only one ZIII busmaster (e.g. a Deneb, Fastlane, etc.).  So again I think what he's saying is if you have more than one DMA ZIII card in an A4000T w/Rev.11 (really this is limited to either a Fastlane or Deneb) you'd have to run the Deneb in PIO mode and let the Fastlane run in DMA mode.  There shouldn't be a problem with other ZIII cards like the PicassoIV, Cybervision64, Prometheus, etc. as these are not true ZIII busmastering cards (though that may change with the Prometheus as I've read E3B is working on a DMA fix for that card).

.....My apologies to Michael if I got this wrong.

[platon42]

Argus wrote:
The A4000T is different because it implements the A4091 on the m/b and there is an additional busmastering conflict as a result, which prevents use of the Deneb whatsoever in DMA mode (and maybe even PIO mode, though I'm not certain).  Since all A4000Ts also have Rev.11, even if you don't use the on-board SCSI controller, they again allow only one ZIII busmaster (e.g. a Deneb, Fastlane, etc.).  So again I think what he's saying is if you have more than one DMA ZIII card in an A4000T w/Rev.11 (really this is limited to either a Fastlane or Deneb) you'd have to run the Deneb in PIO mode and let the Fastlane run in DMA mode.

.....My apologies to Michael if I got this wrong.

You can always use the Deneb in PIO mode, regardless of Buster revisions or busmastering cards or secondary channel a4091 (A4000T).

The A4091 is really broken, regardless as if implemented as Zorro III card or on A4000T. And installing the Deneb in an A4000T and actually using the onboard SCSI can cause hangups with other DMA cards, such as the Deneb. The milage will vary regarding the probability and also largely depends on the CPU card used (if I'm not mistaken).

On my current A4000T board, using the DMA driver causes an instant lockup. Unfortunately.

[mr_silicon]

Any update on the development status of the Deneb?

[Evillord68]

The link to the test report on the first post does not work, because we have changed our forumsoftware.

Here is the testreport again: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3227&highlight=testbericht

Sorry, it´s in german. My english is not good enough to translate it.

[mboehmer_e3b]

Any update on the development status of the Deneb?

More on the production status of the Deneb :-)

We had a machine breakdown in our assembly line, which is started this week again. It needed some repair and setup again, so we lost some time in production.
So - things are in production, but delayed due to this failure.

Development of the FPGA logic will be continued, we have a freezeout version for this production run, but hardware upgrades for this part of the Deneb are a matter of software, which can be done easily in your own computer without removing the card. Flexibility is the magic word here :-)

Sorry for the shortness, I'm in a hurry :-(

Michael

[mr_silicon]

Excellent. Thanks Michael  :-)

[platon42]

mr_silicon wrote:
Any update on the development status of the Deneb?

Michael already commented on the hardware side, so a short update from the software side:

Luciferin has reached release candidate state (yeah, even the updated docs). Bootloader development for the Deneb is finished, and so is the software for the virtual installation disk. It also comes with a small boot intro (Algor users might notice a slight similarity). As a new feature, the Debeb can boot into MorphOS PUP directly from flashrom.

The Deneb USB 2.0 driver has gone into final testing and optimization stages. Poseidon V4.0 has been feature frozen (and a few features have been added aswell :-P ).

Edit: And there is a tool that can be used for mapping the clockport to a fake zorro card carrying clockports (for example the X-Surf), so that you can use clockport cards with drivers not knowing the new Deneb card.

So, everything is getting ready for shipment soon ;-)

So long.

[Phantom]

Great news Chris! I'm looking forward to... ;-)