AmiKit and Terms of Use

[recidivist]

 As a longtime owner and user(intermittently) of computers Amiga plus a whole bunch of other ones,I thought it might be interesting to try AmiKit.

  Already have legal Amiga Forever on an XP machine,by the way.

  Anyway, I find that the Terms of Use seem to prohibit anyone not a vegetarian and pacifist from downloading or using AmiKit.
  Pity.

  Restricting the potential user base is not likely to make your OS a huge success.And since all forms of violence are condemned it would appear anyone who eats meat,realizes the need to control animal populations,or is willing to fight to protect his life,wife,or Amiga from attackers can't use AmiKit.

 Did I read the site correctly or are the Terms a joke? :-?

[Matt_H]

That's obviously a very, VERY strict reading. What does your conscience say you should do?

[motorollin]

recidivist wrote:
  Anyway, I find that the Terms of Use seem to prohibit anyone not a vegetarian and pacifist from downloading or using AmiKit.
  Pity.

  Restricting the potential user base is not likely to make your OS a huge success.And since all forms of violence are condemned it would appear anyone who eats meat,realizes the need to control animal populations,or is willing to fight to protect his life,wife,or Amiga from attackers can't use AmiKit.

It doesn't actually say that. Here is what the terms of use say:

This package, either in whole or in part, MUST NOT be used:

- on any machine which is used for the research, development, construction, testing or production of weapons or other military applications. This also includes any machine which is used in the education for any of the above mentioned purposes.
- by people who accept, support or use any kind of violent or other aggressive behaviour against other people or animals.

The first part means the author doesn't want it to be used in military or weapons-oriented conputers. That doesn't prohibit individuals who have any patriotic, nationalist or even pro-war tendencies from using it on their own private equipment.

The second part refers to support of violence against people and animals. I think it is highly questionable to say that consumption of meat is an act of violence, since most civilised societies animals are slaughtered painlessly.

--
moto

[recidivist]

   I would like the person(s) who wrote the Terms of Use to clarify this phrase;

    by people who accept, support or use any kind of violent or other aggressive behaviour against other people or animals.
 
   

  I suppose it all depends on the reading of aggressive.Does the author believe hunting is aggressive? Or demanding all people convert their belief to one's  deity or system of government on pain of death?While I don't hunt, I certainly condone it ,for there are far too many deer and coyotes in the Ohio valley.Of course an interesting point is that persons of evil intent won't care about copyrights,patents,the Golden Rule,or any other restraint they can evade.

  All these Amiga lawsuits must have put me in a lawyer's state of mind.

  I always thought the best software license I'd seen stated "treat this software like a book.use it on only one computer at a time,and if you lend it,do not use it yourself at the same time;do not make any copies other than one for backup purposes, and do not give away or sell copies of this software;and if you sell the software package,keep no copies or materials but give all of it to the new owner.Additional licenses should be purchased for each computer if the software will be run on more than one computer at the same time."

 

[Fester]

Perhaps the Amikit author(s) should have enlisted a lawyer in the writing of the Terms of Use? I mean, recidivist does make a point that these terms need clarification.

I might have given myself moral indigestion running Amikit had I read these terms after eating a hamburger.

But seriously, "aggressive" could mean just about anything in this context.

Fester

[motorollin]

I don't wish to offend the author of Amikit, but it seems to me that these kinds of terms of use are an attempt to coerce people to change their moral values by denying them the right to use the product unless they conform to the author's wishes. However, it seems unlikely to me that anybody would change their morals in order to use a piece of software, or eschew said software because their morals do not comply with the author's requirements.

While I can understand author's not wanting their software to be used for weapons research, as stated in the Amikit terms of use, it is my opinion that the morals of the users of the software are not the author's concern, and I have to say I think that demanding people not to use your product because they do not conform to your morals is itself morally objectionable.

--
moto

[odin]

motorollin wrote:
The second part refers to support of violence against people and animals. I think it is highly questionable to say that consumption of meat is an act of violence, since most civilised societies animals are slaughtered painlessly.

I'm getting OT here but I can't resist to comment on this. The act of killing the animal itself might be instantly but the whole process of shipping animals and growing them in confined spaces can be considered as violence against animals and far from painless.

[Opus]

did you email the author for clarification?  or just post your extreme interpretation?  

I agree, it sounds wrong, maybe english is not his first language?  

so besides the agreement, what did you think of Amikit?  And btw, Amikit is not an OS.   :crazy:

[jmbattle]

I think some of you may be taking the 'Terms of Service' a little too seriously.

However, I wonder if a raw-pesco-vegetarian would be allowed to use his package?

Cheers,
James
x

[guru-666]

LOL, funny stuff.  humor can help.  These terms and condition are meant to be a joke.. any way there are very "righteous".  Sounds like the author has some growing up to do... if you live anywhere on this plant you really can't use this software, if you think are non complicit in any of these things... wake up you are part of the human race, great injustice is being done all the time.. what have you done to stop it.... what ever you did you failed, bad things are still happening.  what are you doing on this site... go already save the world kid!
 :-)

[weirdami]

- by people who accept, support or use any kind of violent or other aggressive behaviour against other people or animals.

I'm guessing the writer it super totally anti-war so the word  "accept" must mean that if you don't actively protest wars, you can't use AK.

The problem with the whole thing anyway is, from what I've gathered, that the AK package is a collection of freeware stuff so the "in part" thing is useless except, I guess, when talking about the installer. So, just strip the installer and install things manually and you're fine to take your emulated Amiga into battle. Wahoo!

Or, install the stuff on a laptop computer while at an anti-war rally (or a desktop unit if the rally is at your house). Once everything is installed, the computer is free to start being used to plan your next invasion. As long as you've deleted the installer files while at the rally.

- on any machine which is used for the research, development, construction, testing or production of weapons or other military applications. This also includes any machine which is used in the education for any of the above mentioned purposes.

Does this education business include the stuff found via the links in odin's signature? Even Cannon Fodder is a sort of attempt by the authors to educate people about war.

edit: oops i see, not education about war, education about building weapons.

[LoadWB]

Or it could be poor humor.

In any case, once you interpret the terms or have the clarification made and find either to be offensive to your nature, either because you are opposed morally or because of the limitations, you are welcome to move on and use something else.

I find his terms humorous, myself.  In the strictest sense, I "accept" aggressive and violent behavior in the sense of self-defense or preemptive attack.  So I would, in the strictest sense of the term, be ineligible to use the software.  Which for me is fine as he is using stuff I can get online and assemble myself anyway.

[AmiKit]

Thanks to all for reading the "Terms of Use" and for all your comments.

The first point of the "Terms of Use" was intended to make you start thinking about you and your behavior instead of enforcing such a behavior. And it seems it was a success - as this thread proves. Simply, try to be nice to other people and animals. It is interesting to see how each one interprets this particular point of the "Terms of Use" differently. Actually, your comments are more about yourself, your personality and your general attitude to the world rather than about the terms itself.

I think I've found even better terms (the very first paragraph) which I'd like to apply in the next major release. :-)

[LoadWB]

The terms for Feelin' are not necessarily ambiguous, but certainly make a statement (and if you use them, please use "than" and not "then".)  And most of the statements can be taken as subjective and situative (I think I made that word up :-))

Personally, I do not think that your terms are bad: as you said, they have encouraged discussion, though not necessarily on the side of political or moral agenda but rather on the specifics of the terms themselves.

Of course if the terms are less ambiguous and more specific, well then the discussion will be about the things you miss.  Not everyone will be satisfied.

At the end of it all, we all have to recognize that not everyone thinks the same way about things.  Obviously we will not be dragged into court for violating the terms of accepting violence against other human beings; the terms are heartfelt suggestions from someone with specific moral values.  As such, we are apt to ignore or pay attention to them.

I mean, seriously, we all use a product produced by a company which spies on its customers, violates federal regulations, and engages in unfair, intimidatory (another word I think I just made up,) and predatory business practices.  And yet we continue to buy Microsoft software (I sell it, imagine what a whore I feel like!)

Disney wants to control your viewing habits, and yet we still buy its DVDs and watch its TV shows.  (I do not, but that is another story altogether.)

AT&T wants to levy additional charges for network traversal to companies which already pay for Internet uplink.  And yet we still use it for long distance and cell phone service (et tu, Cingular?)

Bank of America and other companies grant lines of credit and mortgages (legally, thanks to NAFTA... who saw that coming?) to people who are not in our country legally and move money away from our economy.  And yet we continue to patronize them.

The recording industries globally use the court system to intimidate its customers into helping them maintain a defunct and out-of-date business model.  But we still buy major label CDs

We accept increasing prices for movies and still have to watch five minutes of commercials.  (Although "Transformers" only had previews, YIPEE!)

Every day technology companies troll patents and use the DMCA to maintain a control over the market.  Yet we still buy their products.

And so on and so forth.

And yet all AmiKit wants is for us to think about being nice to people and animals.  It is a concept that is difficult to articulate, but none-the-less universal.  But be careful, it is just that kind of thinking that gets people nailed to things.

[motorollin]

@AmiKit
Thank you for responding calmly and politely :-) I commend your moral standpoint, but I think the wording of your terms of use could be better. Maybe suggesting that people consider their actions, or think twice before committing acts of violence etc, rather than insisting that people who accept or commit such acts do not use your software.

BTW the terms of use for Feelin are hilarious :lol:

--
moto