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Offline A4kTTopic starter

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A4000T CSMII hassle
« on: June 01, 2003, 11:36:23 PM »
I've had a Phase5 CS MkII  overclocked to 60Mhz  in my A400T for about 5 years now  with no problems. This week I have confirmed that the A4000T "Audio/Visual" module is dying - condenser fell off - and have ordered a new one from SoftWare Hut.
THE CSMkII just won't boot up I get flashing green LED on the front of the A400T panel - no 'rainbow' startup screen. I have 4 x 32mb SIMMS on the board.
Tried reducing the system to it's absolute bare minimum and taking the CSMkII back to 50Mhz but no luck.
Tried each of tyhe 32mb SIMMS individually - no luck.
I've never had any probs with the Cyberstorm until now, none whatsoever - even after overclocking
My old '040 daughterboard boots OK but I get occasional  garbnage screens and have to re-boot.
Anyone think there is a connection between the dying A/V module and the non-starting CSMkII ? Even crazy guesses welcome. Bear in mind that the 040 and the CSMkII require the 'internal/external" jumper settings to be changed on the A400T motherboard - this may lead to a link to the bad A/V module - I just don't know.

(If the CSMkII is dead then it looks like I'll have to get an A1) :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-?
 

Offline iamaboringperson

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2003, 11:44:25 PM »
what is it like with a graphics card?

will it boot?
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2003, 12:19:12 AM »
Yes, boots  now with the 040 daughter card and the INT/EXT jumpers reset
I have a Retina BLTZ3 with the "Retina auto-switcher' and an external scandoubler in the Amiga vidoe output running CybergraphX V4
The setup has always been quite transparant (4 years) - If I run Perfect General the auto switcher snaps the video to the Amiga vid output - to the scan doubler and then to the monitor - no problems.
The A4000T's Audio-Video module has a dark, burnlike patch on it and the big blue condenser's pins were loose, one of them floating free - I replaced this condenser.

So far this is  list of suspects...
1.   CSMKII is dead (sob)
2.   All mem on CSMkII board corrupted (unlikely)
3.   CSMkII 50 & 60 Mhz oscillators both dead (unlikely)
4.   Relationship between sick A/V module & INT/EXT
      jumper settings (neccessary to run the CSMKII)
     
     I rate No.4 as being suspicious - with the 040 installed and the jumpers set to INT the system works as usual but graphics are 'fragile'.  With CSMKII installed an EXT jumpers set ... nothing.

what do you think ?

PS : Thanks for the swift reply
PPS : The CSMKII is not a DCE unit.
 

Offline Castellen

Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2003, 03:07:47 AM »
There is nothing on the A4000T's audio/video module which it needs to boot, the system will work without it.
I have a CSmkII here in my A4000T as well and it has never given any problems.

I repaired an A4000T a few months back which the 22µF capacitors onthe audio/video module had leaked electrolyte onto the PCB, that's the brown stuff you see.
I'd carefully inspect all the SMD electrolytic capacitors on the motherboard for signs of leakage.

Things to watch for is the silver legs of the capacitors appear black or tarnished instead of smooth and silver.
A distinct fishy smell, especially when you solder it.
Discolouration of the PCB and surrounding components.

The leaking capacitors can semi-bridge PCB tracks, which can introduce crosstalk, meaning you can get data corruption.  Perhaps this is what you're seeing with the A3640 in place?

I'd highly recommend replacing all the 22µF caps on the motherboard anyway.

Also you really need to test the CSmkII in another machine to make sure it's working correctly.  You've got no easy way of knowing otherwise.

If you need schematics or more info, feel free to give me a yell.

Anthony.
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2003, 06:26:54 PM »
Thanks for a well thought out response,  you are obviously a genuine A4000T addict...
I still fret about the fact that my original '040 card boots AFTER the CPU source jumpers are set BACK to INTERNAL....
(there might be a huge difference btween INT-EXT operations)  ....
.....and that alone may be relevant to the CSMkII boot cycle.
Who can say that the CSMkII doesn't do some reference check for valid video video or whatever.
In any case, the big blus 'widget' on the A/V board turns out to be a condenser - not a capacitator - according to my local parts shop staff - they found the identical part.

In any case, thanks a lot for even replying - Japan - where I live - is a long way from even another A4000(T) to test the card in but I value your advice.

 

Offline Castellen

Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2003, 12:16:33 PM »
Condenser is the "old fashioned" name for capacitor, same thing :)

As for the clock source jumpers, the CSmkII requires these to be in the "internal" position, this is where the clock signal generated by the motherboard's crystal oscillator is used by the rest of the motherboard for timing purposes.  Perhaps the CSmkII does not generate this itself for some reason, most of the other CPU boards with built in clock require the motherboard jumpers to be set to external clock.

It could be that there is something wrong with either the motherboard oscillator, frequency dividers, or delay line (U102).
If you have a counter, I think you should have 25MHz on both clock jumpers, from memory.
A lot of those oscillators were fitted into machine sockets, which can become loose and cause an intermittent connection on the oscillator module.  Would be worth checking.

If you have an EC030 card (A3630?), you can try that, as they require motherboard clock.

Don't forget the CSmkII uses a few additional lines to the motherboard that the A3640 doesn't, so it can be possible where one card can work where the other one won't.
However, unless you can check the CSmkII on a known working machine, you're only speculating.

Perhaps you can send it to a friend somewhere else to test?  Would only cost freight.
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2003, 01:48:19 PM »
Your'e right I had the INT / EXT arse about in my previous post  :) but I did use the correct positions for the relevant cards.
The new A/V card should be here from Software Hut in a few days, I'll post my findings after I install it and the CSMkII and power up....

Thanks for the time you took to reply. :-(
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2003, 07:16:45 PM »
The new A4000T audio/video module arrived today from Sofgtware Hut - installed it - set the MB jumpers J100 & J104 to INT -rre-installed the Cyberstorm MkII ...and ...
No joy.
Well at least I eliminated the (remote) possibility that the old A/V module was contributing to the CsMkII 's non starting.

At startup I get 3 or 4 LED blinks -which I gather is a ROM failure.

So... either my 060 itself is flakey or dead, previously couldn't overclock to 66Mhz - but 60Mhz was fine - significant ?

Or there is a short or burned out component on the CS.
Looks like a trip to France for this CSMkII

Or.. one of the suggestions from  responders to the original post...
 :-?
 

Offline Castellen

Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2003, 12:01:14 AM »
Did you know that Vesalia Computer in Germany have A4000T modules for £5 each?

But anyway, the fact that the power LED is blinking, shows that the CPU is actually doing something.  There are custom logic devices on the Cyberstorm board, so these may have failed?  Possibly died due to the extra demands put on them from overclocking.  Remember that clock speeds are what the devices are rated for.  By exceeding them, you're using the devices outside their specifications.

See how the A3640 board performs in your A4000T in the meantime.  Don't forget to remove/rename the Cyberstorm libraries and use the correct 68040.library or you'll get werid problems.

Sending the Cyberstorm to France (or Hyperion?) will probably be the next thing to do.
 

Offline Dr_Righteous

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2003, 01:04:06 AM »
Two things you might try...

Remove all the RAM from the CS card, see if it'll boot... That'll eliminate the RAM possibility.

The second would be to get an 060 off ebay for about US$50... It might just be that the CPU us worn out from years of OC operation.
- Doc

A4000D, A3640 OC-36.3MHz, custom tower, Mediator A4000D. Diamond Banshee 16M, Indivision AGA 4000, GVP HC+8.

Mac Mini 1.5GHz, that might run MorphOS someday, when the fools who own it come to the realization that 30 minutes just isn\'t enough time to play with it enough to decide whether or not you like it enough to cough up $200.

 - Someone please design SOME kind of DIY accelerator for the A4000. :D -
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2003, 11:05:13 PM »
Well, I installed the new A/V module and ....... no luck the CsMkII still refuses to boot... the 040 card doles though.
I have sent the card off to Francwe to Jean-Jacques
(very friendly, helpful guy).
I'll post his findings in a week or so.
 :-(
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2003, 03:36:43 PM »
Just got an email from the wonderfully friendly & helpful ( & ovbiously talented) Jean - Jaques of www.amiga.fr
to tell me that my 060 Cyberstorm is now up and running again.
Took about two weeks all up including postal time.
I highly recommend his service to broken Phase 5 or DCE board owners.
I also support any legal action against DCE. Not returning boards is theft, plain and simple.
 :-x
 

Offline PaSha

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2003, 04:53:34 PM »
Hmmmm.... I've always been running my cs mk2 060 with the jumpers in the 'ext' position.....
no problems...

-Paul
 

Offline A4kTTopic starter

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2003, 03:07:51 AM »
Sorry for the confusion about INT / EXT  ..  it was a typo error.
I always had both the CSMkII and the 040 daughter boards set to the correct jumper settings.
 

Offline Momo

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Re: A4000T CSMII hassle
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2003, 09:37:59 PM »
Well, I have the exact same issue with my 4000T.

The original and a replacement 3640 work just fine, but putting either a MKII or MKIII with a 060 at 50 Mhz will not work. No Kickstartscreen asking for a Workbench disk, not even a trigger of the screen signal. My monitor enters standby mode and when you start the Amiga with the 3640 card in it, it will leave standby and enter the regular display mode asking for the workbench, but with the MK boards, it will not work. Of course the jumpers are in the EXT position, also in a 4000D or 3000T the cards work, so anyone out there who knows why that is???

 :-?