Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?

[Dr_Righteous]

Nice to see other people trying to lighten the mood of this topic... I try it and end up getting flamed!

I dunno about the rest of you, but I consider Amiga a hobby platform... And I'm not about to get that upset over a hobby platform. (Serious video production folks, ignore this)

If something works, cool... If not, there's no sense in fighting about it. If you need to buy software to make hardware work, that's just the way it is... Otherwise write something yourself and give it out freely.

We're a community with a common interest. Let's act like civilized people for a change!

[createcoms]

I think ELBOX products are the best thing since sliced bread (thus my recent purchase of a Mediator 1200 SX).  I also think ELBOX management are the worst thing since Commodore.

And to avoid any stupid RDB bullsh*t in the future since Im going to be using their products Im designing a sort of 'driver firewall' to prevent any ELBOX software from making system calls that it shouldnt (explain how a USB driver needs to legitimitly touch the RDB in any way!).

I like the cake but the icing on top is sour - a metaphoric comparison of elbox........

[Targhan]

I think we have the quote of the day:

I like the cake but the icing on top is sour

:lol:

[elendil]

rudei:

20 Euros Eh? #### I`ll give you the money if your that bothered.

If I make an effort of sounding bothered, will you give me the money too?

Seriously, though, I agree with you.

Sincerely,

-Kenneth Straarup.

[Rudei]

@elendil

LOL - ok mate, what currency? :-D

[tjaoz]

@platon42

And about Elbox not attacking me: I am offended of being called a liar, cracker and pirate.

It is your imagination only. I just wrote in this tread about your false claims against Elbox. See my comment posted on 2003/5/30 16:27.
Is it a problem for you that they do not comment your behaviour?

Finally, this thread also was about the price of the Algor board which is on sale right now.

This thread was not about Algor or prices, but about Spider and Poseidon. This is you who started here the talk about prices of hardware.  In your very first post in this thread you referred to price of the Spider card.

The only aim Rat has, is to promote the pider (and can you be sure that he isn't one of Elbox' at least indirect employees according to all his postings during the whole year?) and bash the Algor with wrong and twisted information.

You are again insulting me with your fictitious complaints.
Read my posts again and you will see they are all based on facts. Only you are using offences.

And about better hardware: I'll be giving away a free Poseidon registration for anyone, who can give a proof that the Spider (I or II) in an Mediator system is able to beat the Algor speedwise on an USB1.1 mass storage device (same CPU, same device).

It is obvious that Spider is much faster than Algor. Algor is only a USB 1.1 controller. Spider is a USB 2.0 High-Speed controller. All my masstorage devices work several times faster with Spider than they could work with Algor (according to Algor benchmarks page).

[tjaoz]

@Targhan

Did you purchase Poseidon from Platon42, or was it to be included with your Spider?

I bought it from Chris Hodges directly.

[AmiGR]

It's not at all "obvious". If you use a 1200, it's NOT
faster (nor slower). The Mediator 1200 uses the
GFXCard ram DMA method. It works fine, but it's NOT
DMA when transfering stuff from and to the cards
from main memory. It uses normal read and write
operations. Yes, it could be faster in high speed mode
by some kbs or mbs but not more... You cannot reach
the USB2.0 speed with any Amiga solution, except
if you plan to copy files from HighSpeed devices
to the GFX Card ram and keep it there:-)

[ikir]

You do have to pay the registration fee for Poseidon seperately, but Elbox do make this pretty clear. I have a Spider I and highly recommend it, it's most excellent, it's a neat and clean USB solution, and if I remember rightly the price of a Spider + Poseidon isn't much different to a Subway USB card anyway. Plus Poseidon dead easy to register.

Right. i agree.

[ikir]

USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $70

USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= $115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= $85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= $75 (or $95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)

Right. Spider is the best solution in all cases.

[olegil]

The RDB of a USB mass storage device?
Oh, I can see where modifying that would be considered useful.

:-P

[jeffimix]

My only question is, which ones will work on my Amiga 2000? Since buying a 3000 would cost more than any of those cards.

[mboehmer_e3b]

Hi ikir,

why do you repost this list which is obviously containing errors, even if you take the guidelines for comparisons Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is giving in its own postings ?
I tried to explain why here, but it seems easier for people to repost things without ever checking with their own brains if they are true or not.
(Did you recognize that Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is denying to answer this thread ? Just beat him with his own arguments, and all there is is silence...)

Seems that I am talking into the void

Michael

[mboehmer_e3b]

Hi jeffimix,

from the solutions which were posted here all Zorro based one will work in your Amiga 2000:

Thylacine, ALGOR, HIGHWAY

If you have a Zorro card included in your system with a free supported clockport, also a SUBWAY would work.

I won't give you my favourite solution here, as this might be found offensive by some people, but for my A2000 with a Blizzard 2040 processor card I found the ALGOR card to work perfectly (take a look on the benchmarks, they were made on this system).

Michael

[tjaoz]

@Michel

why do you repost this list which is obviously containing errors, even if you take the guidelines for comparisons Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is giving in its own postings ?

My summary quoted by Ikir reliably gives price relationships between USB controllers listed there.

As I wrote in the thread quoted by you, prices of these controllers in Germany (with 16% VAT included) are:

USB 2.0 controller:
Spider II (5 ports) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR70

USB 1.1 controllers:
Pegasos on-board USB controller (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR
Algor (3 ports) + Driver +Poseidon ~= EUR115
Highway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR100
Subway (4 ports) + Driver + Poseidon ~= EUR85
Thylacine (1 port) + Drivers + Poseidon ~= EUR75 (or EUR95, I'm not sure if Poseidon is included)

Nothing in the summary is changed except for currency, from $ to EUR.
NONE of price relationships between the controllers were changed.

I tried to explain why here, but it seems easier for people to repost things without ever checking with their own brains if they are true or not.

Your problem is that persons like Ikar use their own brains and do not have to resort to yours.

(Did you recognize that Mr. Tjaoz (aka Rat) is denying to answer this thread ? Just beat him with his own arguments, and all there is is silence...)
Seems that I am talking into the void

I do not refrain from answering. Just on the contrary. I showed your mistakes and where they came in your calculation. You have doubled German VAT for Spider.

Your continued looking for split hairs is simply boring :-(
Instead of making up how to add something to the Spider's price to make it more expensive, just admit your mistake and that's it.

As regards your trick to add part of Mediator price to the price of Spider... being consequent, you should suggest adding part of the price of Zorro equipped computers (corresponding to the price of one Zorro slot) to the price of Zorro2 USB controllers. If somebody has a Zorro busboard by Micronik or Elbox, parts of their prices should be added, and so on...

Such calculation of controller's price is a clear nonsens!
It is obvious that Spider is being bought by those who have PCI slots (or PCI and Zorro slots), while Zorro2 controllers are being bought by those who do not have PCI slots. Logical and natural, isn't it?  It does not mean anything how much their computers used to be some time ago.

Just think how expensive USB controllers for Zorro2 would be for those who have only a PC machine. You should include the price of the entire Zorro equipped Amiga computer. :-)

I hope you can see absurdity of your comments to my summary.

[mboehmer_e3b]

Dear Mr. Tjaoz,

no  answers, just repetitions. As expected from you.
Just two quotesfrom you  to show it.

The USB stack is not included in the WalMart card price.
The USB stack, which is necessary for using this card is the part of the Microsoft Windows or the Apple Mac OS system.
You should add the part of Windows or Mac OS price to the Walmart card price if you compare it to Spider II + Drivers + Poseidon.

Such calculation of controller's price is a clear nonsens!
It is obvious that Spider is being bought by those who have PCI slots (or PCI and Zorro slots), while Zorro2 controllers are being bought by those who do not have PCI slots.
Logical and natural, isn't it? It does not mean anything how much their computers used to be some time ago.

In one posting, you demand that all parts necessary for running a product need to be taken into account, in the next you deny it - according what is more convinient to you.
Quite twisted. What should one do now ?
Think about it, take a decision and then come back.

Regarding price of Zorro slots: nice try, but as you state above: it is obvious the ALGOR is not bought by those who don't have Zorro slots. If they have A1200, they own a clockport and go for a SUBWAY.

Michael