Alans reply to Bill

[dammy]

by IonDeluxe on 2003/5/18 15:47:14

All this aside I wish all the parties involved in the Amiga community to just pull thier heads in, swallow thier pride and pull together in the one direction and start competing with the real opposition being Mac PC and Linux to expand the Amiga market rather than this cannibalization thats going on.
This includes everyone from Mr Buck tand Mr Mcewen, to Mr Meyers and Mr Frank.

Not going to happen.  Garry Hare and Bill Buck getting along, OTOH, is a possibilitiy.  Mr. Franks returning to reality is unlikely as a certain OSNews wank/modator gaining respect from any non-FFONTC community member(s).  Mr Meyers, AFAIK, now has a real job now so I doubt he would be interested.  Sure, it would be wonderful if we all could get along, but in short, that's not real life.  

In real life, we acknowledge what we do have in the here and now while we move forward into the future with hope.

Dammy

[Targhan]

I agree to some of the sentiments presented by you guys, and disagree with others.

I suppose the bottom line is they are all somewhat concerned with their own business.  After all, that is what all of this is about no?  From Mr. Frank and Mr. Meyers to Mai and Genesi, at some point business decisions have to be made.  I point the finger at certain bumblings, and I can overlook others.  

I still don't think that the Alan Redhouse reply is the genuine article. The said post just doesn't fit the context of anything more than a Rant.

As far as professionalism in this community, I point squarely at Vaporware.  These guys have gotten screwed, not once, not twice, but at least THREE times by various deals.  Still, they trudge along trying to improve the community.  When the main developer left, he turns the project over to another developer--protecting the end user.  Unlike Holger Krusen and Bernie Meyer, Oliver Wagner did everything that he could to ensure that when he went to work elsewhere that the Amiga community was taken care of.  Ollie did everything he could to protect the intrest of his registered users.  THIS is professionalism.  THIS is how it should be done.

Well, kudos belong to others as well, but Vaporware is the development group to which all others should be judged.  There is professionalism left in our little community.  Think about it the next time you start AmIRC, Voyager, MicroDot, or any of the other VaporWare programs.

[IonDeluxe]

@Targhan

I find myself in complete agreement.Professionalism here is the keyword, and something that has been lacking from certain companies

It is my view that it is pride that is standing in the way of the things I have described above....no-one wants to back down, admit they are wrong or make comprimises because of it.
Some of these companies have attempted oto a lesser or greater extent to swallow thier pride, but as yet have fallen short of the mark.
This pride swallowing must also be done by certain member of the community, as this is a cycles that keep going.Company A makes a statement, community A goes woohoo, community B syas what a load of BS, company B joins in to support community B company A says something to refute company B and around and around it goes.

We as a community must put a stop to this by not allowing this kind of thing to continue, and put pressure on ALL companies to resolve thier differances.
I have yet to see one person disagree that everyone working together would not be the best thing for our platform.
So we as a community must step back, remove ourselves from any particular loyalties and refuse to tolerate this back and forth any longer!

I am sick to death by these companies TELLING US that Amiga Inc. is screwed, Genesi are a bunch of idiots, OS4 is never coming out, MAI is a backstabbing bunch of bastards and so on.
All these companies exist to provide US what we WANT, and it seems WE all WANT the same thing, a united Amiga front.

Its long past time WE TOLD THEM that this is no longer going to be tolerated and get them to do what WE as the community want.

We should show these companies by example by putting aside our differances and for the community to work towards this end.We can do this through posting, by e-mails, with our wallets, and refusing to participate in the propaganda and flame wars cause by all these cheap shots these companies and individuals make.

[Fats]

Wayne wrote:
It's interesting to see Alan coming out (if it really was him) with a blatant personal attack on Bill Buck where Bill Buck's comment was a sequence of events and was in no way a personal attack or "FUD" (I now loathe that stupid term).

I disagree here. People don't seem to realize that doing business also involves personal contacts with other people. Now somebody asks 'why are all those people turning their back on me ?' and somebody else answers that it is because how he treats his partners.
Now this may be personal but is right on topic and has a good place to be told. I agree that maybe a better wording could have been chosen.
On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell. That's why I stay away from companies/people like Elbox, H&P, Harald Frank and Bill Buck. This may be personal but I think I have all the right to do this and also tell other people why I do this.

On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell.

So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?

[Fats]

mdma wrote:
So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?

If you ask, I try to stay away from MS also. I type this in Opera under linux. I'm running linux on my Dell x86, Sparc Station 20 and amigaone.
At work I'm known as a UNIX/linux expert and am in the contact group with the computer support people where I also try to promote linux.
(BTW, the x86 is used for AROS dev work, yes hello mdma).

[Elektro]

"That's why I stay away from companies/people like Elbox, H&P, Harald Frank and Bill Buck."

Absolutely, couldn't agree more.

[Targhan]

@Fats & Elektro

Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga.  You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.

[Elektro]

 :roflmao:

[Hammer]

mdma wrote:

On a sidenote, for me the business tactics of a company are as important as the products they sell.

So you definately won't use any Microsoft products will you Fats, seeing as they are convicted felons?

Note that IBM** was guilty of the similar actions as with MS.

**Lasted for 40 years, which ended in ~1996.

[Fats]

Targhan wrote:
@Fats & Elektro

Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga.  You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.

The problem is that there are two camps at the moment and each of the camps thinks that the other is destroying the amiga spirit as you call it. I try not to be involved in these discussions.
As a long time Amiga user I've grown to dislike certain people in this little world. This is based on real actions taken in the past and not based on information spread by competitors or other people that are member of the opposite camp.
I'm not bitter either and I'm actually actively working to keep the Amiga spirit alive (AROS).

[uncharted]

Targhan wrote:

Your opinions are based on pure propaganda, mis-information, and sad attempts to destroy the real spirit of Amiga.  You have become so bitter that I can only feel sorry for both of you.

It's tempting to mention glass houses.

Let's be honest here, there is very little else but bitterness left.  Trying to lay the blame at one party's door is never going to wash.  At the end of the day this whole self distruction stems from pride and arrogance stemming back from the days of C=

[Targhan]

@fats

I'm happy you work on AROS (good job btw), but to lump these companies together as some sort of axis of evil is wrong.  

Occationally, I villianize Amiga Inc, and that too is wrong.  I have a few personal grudges against some of the decision makers at AmigaInc, but otherwise--they are a victim too.  

H&P?  A victim.  Software Hut? A victim.  Phase5? A victim.  These guys have all had to pick and choose who they could and could not pay, and when.  Lets face it, the entire Amiga market and community has been victimized by the market in general.  It can get better, but we all have to get over our grudges.  

It is wrong to villianize any one company, but we all should try not to.  This includes myself.

(These comments are my own, and not representative of the company I work for, the websites I'm associated with, or any other group of people.)

[IonDeluxe]

Good answer.
The community could really benifit with a greater attitude like this.

[Fats]

Targhan wrote:

I'm happy you work on AROS (good job btw), but to lump these companies together as some sort of axis of evil is wrong.

You read too much in my words. I never wanted to paint one side as the axis of evil. I mentioned two companies and two persons and not the company that is behind the Pegasos, this was on purpose.
(As AROS dev we do cooperate with the MorpOS guys although on an open source basis).

Occationally, I villianize Amiga Inc, and that too is wrong.  I have a few personal grudges against some of the decision makers at AmigaInc, but otherwise--they are a victim too.  

I agree that it seems more and more the case that the people at Amiga Inc. are not capable to effectively lead a company.  Too big Amiga mind, too small business mind.

H&P?  A victim.  Software Hut? A victim.  Phase5? A victim.  These guys have all had to pick and choose who they could and could not pay, and when.  Lets face it, the entire Amiga market and community has been victimized by the market in general.  It can get better, but we all have to get over our grudges.  

Sorry but if a company has made a decision 'to be able to pay people' that in my eye is morally doubtful I will make up my mind.

It is wrong to villianize any one company, but we all should try not to.  This includes myself.

I don't think I villianized a company. I just said that I don't like certain companies, personalities.
The problem it seems is that everything you say about Amiga related stuff is interpreted as being on one side or the other side. And that's also why I think that is impossible to get back to a joined Amiga community.