The AmigaOne is NOT "just a Teron board"!

[Glaucus]

Amiga.inc dosent design it...market it... make an OS for it...all they do is restrict it... It's as much an Amiga as my P4 system is an Amiga...if 'anything' with AOS on it can be badged an Amiga...

I think the root of the problem is that some people only see the technical side.  But that's not how the general public sees it.  Regardless of what you might think of marketing schemes, they play an important role.  As it is, only Amiga Inc can say what is an Amiga and what is not, and it is totally up to their disgretion.  If they pick a rock off the ground and say that's an Amiga, well it's an Amiga.  They and only they have that power.

"Amiga" is and always has been just a name.  Commodore used it to name their new multimedia computer back in '85.  Amiga is not mystical or magical, it did not descend from the heavens nor was it handed out by the lady of the lake.

To argue that the "new" Amiga is not an Amiga is pretty stupid.  It's like arguing that the new Porsche 911 isn't really a 911 because you liked the older models better.  Or that the new Nissan 350Z isn't really a Z because the older 300ZX was better, or the not yet released 2004 Toyota Supra won't be a real Supra because it's not like the past Supras.  All these companies own the name and can re-use that name on new cars that almost have almost no resemblence to the original product.  You can love it or hate it, but you can't dispute what it is.

Now, back to the computer market....  I think Amiga Inc is doing a good thing here.  The PC market is a bit different as you have a wide selection of motherboards (AUS, Gigabyte, MSI, Abit, Soyo, etc...) and CPUs (Durons, Thunbderbirds, athlons, athlonXP's, P3's, P4's, Xeon's, celerons, etc...) and you can walk into any computer retail shop and buy the parts OR have them design and build one for you.  Not quite so for the PPC market.  Fact is, I never even knew they sold PPC motherboards outside the iMac market.  It's a market that I'm completely out of touch with, so I would be very confused about how to even start building a PPC machine for AOS4.  Amiga has helped me here by labeling a particular hardware platform as the AmigaOne and made it the official platform.  For me, as a clueless customer in this new market it makes my life a lot easier.  It might not be the best choice but to me it seems like the safest choice.  Amiga Inc may have made mistakes in the past, but as far as I'm concerned this is not one of them.  This is a very smart move on their part.

  - Mike

so if gigabyte buys Asus boards and calls them mambo rockets then their mambo rockets not Asus boards? it dosent change that technical their still asus boards... thats my point... there is no 'differance' of course they can call something amiga they bought the name...and it is an amiga from that standpoint...but there is 'nothing' special about it .....wich is why seehund and others say they should just market the OS and leave boards alone...

back to why eyetechs prices are wacko...

heres a link to their price of CDRW's ...

http://www.eyetech.co.uk/search.php?SearchStr=&SearchCat=AMCW


now here is a link to pricewatch.com (keep in mind the companys on pricewatch STILL mark things up and they gotta make a profiet to... so eyetech and pricewatch companys prices should be at least 'kinda' in line..)

pricewatch

as you can see the 'top of the line' cdrw on pricewatch is cheaper then their 16x for 84$ (assuming UKP?)  so their 84 UKP is over 100 american like 120 or so ...so they import the cdrws and terrif etc...they could still sell them probably for
'half' the price and do well more then break even... yet they dont... so they are doing exactly what paul_gadd said..their milking 'amiga' value..

BTW their IDE cables are like 10 UKP... wich is probably the biggest ripoff I've ever seen... if someone wants IDE cables they can buy them in like  4 packs here for like 2$ wich is pretty high profiet ...but still 10UKP come on... it's a freakin IDE cable they come free with cases.

[Thellenbow]

I have to agree with you there. If Amiga Inc. really wanted to have a larger audience, they could make the system open. They could do the same thing LUNIX does, have minimum specs that would allow anyone to build a system. Why should they worry about the hardware? They are a software company. Why bother licensing hardware?

[Paul_Gadd]

Or PCWorld which has got to be one of the most expensive hugh computer shops in UK but Eyetechs prices are a lot higher but hey  you will not want to price compare or say anything bad about Eyetech because they are a Amiga company.

If Eyetech was not a amiga company many people would not touch them with a bargepole.

[AmiGR]

I claim? LoL....

[samface]

Woooo... This I'll be fun...

ET: After our news story, we had a pretty strong posting on our website. Our member said that Amiga OS "will apply some form of hardware-license mechanism, a dongle to his hardware."

Bill McEwen: That's untrue.

Correct. Using some kind of dongle is NOT enforced by the AmigaOS4. AmigaOS4 only requires the hardware verification binaries installed onto a ROM, preferably a flashROM, and won't even be noticable by the user at all. Refering to that as a dongle is incorrect. The dongle thing was only something Hyperion suggested as a solution to hardware which has no flashROM.

ET: And that if you want AmigaOS, "you're not allowed to buy it. You have to buy a new Teron board."

Bill McEwen: That's untrue.

Correct. AmigaOS will be available seperately for Phase5 PPC board owners. Also, that should be an AmigaOne, not Teron. A Teron board will not even run AmigaOS in the first place.

ET: and that "Amiga Inc. has nothing to do with AmigaOS"

Bill McEwen: That's untrue.

Correct. There would be no AmigaOS4 at all if it wasn't for Amiga Inc. It's as simple as that.

IE: AOS4 will be rom attached to the A1

Incorrect interpretation. Enough said.

IE:the A1 is the only board licensed for AOS4

So far, yes.

IE:AOS4 will not be retail

To some extent, yes it will.

IE:you must either own an 'old' PPC Accel or buy the new A1 to run AOS4.... PPC Accel aside you cant just go pickup a ArticiaS based board and use AOS4 on it.

Well, yes you can. All you have to do is turn to your closest Amiga hardware dealer and ask him to get a licensed version of that product for you.

Now chew on that for a while... :-P

[Glaucus]

also it Glaucus it isnt just their Boards/etc they inflate...look at all the other products... all they need to do is sell you an IDE cable and they make 90% Profiet on it..sellint an IDE cable for 2$ is like 180% profiet when you get it for 20 cents..... I used to work for a retailer who bought bulk and believe me eyetechs prices are wacko even for the UK import costs and such... their nutzo

Well, if you can get me an IDE cable for $2 then send me a crateful. I just picked up an IDE cable for about CDN$13 + taxes, that would be close USD$9 (or $10 after taxes).  I found this listing on their website:
CAB40-2W-20C 40 way IDE cable 2 connector 20cm 4.25

I assume that's in either British Pounds or Euros.  Eitherway, the price is on par with what I'd get it here locally.

Using cables as a comparison is rather lame as well.  Everyone knows they're getting ripped off when they buy cables.  Trust me, I know, I'm big into home audio and home theater as well and it's easy to find a foot long interconnect retailing for over $200.

I took a glance over their prices and I didn't see any that were way out of line.  I only noticed that they seem to deal with older equipment.  No DDR ram for example, just PC100/133 ram.  Personally, I think you guys just have an axe to grind with EyeTech.  If their prices really are out of line for something like an IDE cable then it will eventually auto-correct as their IDE cable sales will dry up.  That's the beauty of capitalism!  I trust that the consumer, at the time of purchase will shop around for the best deal and will make the best choice they can.  If EyeTech isn't the best choice then EyeTech will feel the pain without your help.

  - Mike
 

[Glaucus]

so if gigabyte buys Asus boards and calls them mambo rockets then their mambo rockets not Asus boards?

That too happens in the car market all the time.  Mitsubishi for example sold Eclipse parts to Chrysler that then built the Eagle Talon.  The Talon was eventually discontinued in the US but remained here in Canada since Mitsubishi does not deal in Canada (although I hear they are re-entering the market real soon, if not already).  So, when someone here in Canada bought a Talon, they were technically really buying an Eclipse even though Mits doesn't operate within Canada.  But Talon owners don't consider themselves to be Eclipse owners, if in fact they even know about the connection.

The Mits 3000GT and the Dodge Stealth were in the same situation.  And Ford owns Jaguar, but I doubt too many Jag owners would admit to driving a Ford lately.

Anyway, back to the argument at hand...  My argument in my previous post (or perhaps two posts ago) about how selecting and labelling an official platform makes good marketing sense still stands and wasn't really addressed.

  - Mike

[imortime]

My advice to those out there moaning about the prices of Eyetech's AmigaOne bundles is buy the board and cpu from Eyetech and buy everything else from wherever you can get it, the cheapest as along as you know what bits are supported by AmigaOS 4.0.
Building up a system isn't like rocket science.

Myself, I wouldn't buy one of their bundles and the only reason I can think of buying one of them, is if you're really worried that you don't know what you're doing or for piece of mind.

 

[samface]

mips_proc wrote:

I believe in facts

then you believe humans all speak facts only? or is Bill a robot?
you must of course believe then the A1 and TeronCX are one in the same then....and therefore yesterday before it was proven to you ...you believed what eyetech said... therefore believing 'marketing hype' and not 'fact'?.

Eeeeh, exactly what was proven? No, on the contrary, I prooved that Eyetech's design is an improvement of the original Teron CX design and that the revision 2 design of Teron CX didn't show up until 2-3 months after Eyetech's version. This tells me that it's more *likely* that the TeronCX design revision 2 is based on Eyetech's improved version of the TeronCX revision 1 rather than the opposite. Yes, the current specifications of those two designs are the same, BUT THAT DOES NOT PROOVE THAT THESE IMPROVEMENTS OF THE DESIGN WERE NOT MADE BY EYETECH. Logic is a good thing, study it.

I just wish you would stop using this weird "A has to be true because B is not equal to A" logic, because it isn't logical.

[AmiGR]

Ehm, Samface, without saying that the AmigaONE
is bad, it's very good for what it is, the "improvements", were changes in the machine
specs, done so that the PCB will need no changes
that's why there are so many unsoldered stuff in
the Teron/AmigaONE boards, the Teron is an evalutation design, in order to make boards you
want for testing or production.

[Glaucus]

They could do the same thing LUNIX does, have minimum specs that would allow anyone to build a system.

Yeah, but:
1) Linux isn't marketted so to do the same as linux would be to do nothing

2) Linux is for geeks.  Not only do ya have to build your PC but your kernal as well.  Nothing turned me off from linux more then installing it on my PC.  After tracking down a linux driver for my NIC all I was able to come up with was a .c file.  That's when I decided to free that partition up for something more useful like WinXP.  Linux is great if you're into wasting many hours a day in front of your PC configuring, tweaking and recompiling the kernal.  No thanks!  The only thing to learn from linux is it's mistakes!

3) Building on point 2 above, Linux has yet to really penetrate the home market and it's games market has evaporated.  Why?  Perhaps because there is no LinuxOne!  If they could slap together some hardware and OS and sell it as a package linux  have a far better chance in the home market.  As it stands the chance that joe six pack will build himself a linux box is atronomically remote.  The idea is to make not only the AmigaOS user friendly but the buying process user friendly as well.  Unfortunately linux sucks in both departments.

  - Mike

Linux stands a way better chance of penetrating the home market then AOS does....it has all modern features and at least with KDE a non-confusing GUI.. AOS looks old and it acts old..I agree AOS shouldnt follow the Linux demo..they should follow Windows...and improve the OS to at least semi-modern capabilities.. but they wanna dongle it to one board...so ohh well..

Not only do ya have to build your PC but your kernal as well

and quotes like this comming from you look very ignorant... considering Linux can come OEM you dont have to build your PC"s..... and re-compiling the kernel has been a thing of the past for 'average' users for like 3 years now.... and it supports virtually everything.... aside from 'special' hardware like NLE's/etc
If you cant get through a  SuSE/Mandrake Install you gotta be a pretty screwed up human bieng... you litterly can sit and just click 'yes yes yes yes yes' over and over and get it on a box...

The only thing to learn from linux is it's mistakes

considering Linux runs on virtually all architectures...it's used all over the world and developed by thousands of people I would say A.inc (a handful of amatures compared to the names found in the Linux community) they should be learning all the can from Linux... it's the only OS that did what they want to do 'first' ...

Perhaps because there is no LinuxOne! If they could slap together some hardware and OS and sell it as a package linux have a far better chance in the home market

so you think if they sold expensive... slow... out-dated systems for more money then the current Wintel hardware... they would make it big?...

I think the 'entire' reason Linux is big and used everywhere by companys/developers/etc is because it's free and lots of people can work on it...and it dosent cost a ton of money or require hugely slow and expensive hardware to get the same job done...

in fact when you get your A1 and it comes with Linux you should try installing it... it's part of the reason you're a1 excists isnt it? to sell to Linux developers..

As it stands the chance that joe six pack will build himself a linux box is atronomically remote

and how many joe six packs have the money to throw away and obselete-before-it-was-made computer that hasnt got a single modern app for it and thus wont run Office or surf the web properly?..

The idea is to make not only the AmigaOS user friendly but the buying process user friendly as well. Unfortunately linux sucks in both departments.

Ok I call up IBM and I say 'I want a blah blah workstation throw RH on it" ......thats as easy as it is to get an IBM with Linux on it...throw them my credit card number and get an X86 Linux box.. same with HP/Compaq... Dell...etc....

an AmigaOne?...I gotta install AOS myself how many people know how easy that is?... since the board shows up with Linux ... this is after I had to build an entire system useing the board with the dongle on it... then after that I got an OS that looks ugly and needs about 2 months of work done....granted AOS4 may change all this...but they talk about AOS4 like its 3.9 ported to PPC with transperant windows...and from the looks of it it isnt much differant.

gimme a break AOS is ten times the geek OS then Linux is...it takes tons of work to make it look nice...and even more work to get it online...

I buy SuSE 8.1 and I slap it onto virtually any X86 machine built within the last 4 years and it goes on without a hitch... internet is simple as a handful of clicks... it comes ready to run..and it's solid as a rock... no crashes.. no gurus...no memmory issues... AOS is a geeks OS...just because it dosent have an open source kernel dosent mean it isnt without tons of work needing to be done to make it viable...let alone having apps...wich you forget to mention.. Linux having thousands of modern applications from web browsers to 3D tools suchas Maya/SI|3D/Amazon Paint/etc etc etc...many installing as RPM's... some needing to compiled...some are bin's that need an A+X thrown in front of them like the Java from sun...


that makes me laugh...an amiga person bitching about Linux bieng to hard to install and use...and how he has to compile a kernel.and installation was to hard... if you can configure you amiga to get online you should have the brains to install Linux..


I'm not a Linux zealot... currently out of my plethora of box's at home... I have Windows on 5 machines... 3 bieng rendering box's with NT 4.0 and 2 bieng 2K box's for 3D work...I got Linux on my Network File server and FreeBSD(must scare you even more) on my mail server running sendmail... I've never had a problem with Linux even yggdrasil installed fairly easily with the right hardware... I think you're just finding an excuse to bash it because you dont want to learn a handful of shell commands...

you should go back and try it again it's evolved quite a bit since YggDrasil was king....currently installing SuSE/Lycoris/Lindows/Mandrake/RedHat/Connectiva/etc is 'easier' and faster then installing WinXP... I dont know if your running some sort of bizzare machine and it's very old and you tried to install a strange distro from the mid 90's or what...but you got a very meligned view of the Linux situation in general.

[KennyR]

Hmm, this forum grew before I even knew it! And I was inclined to stay out of it, seeing the usual badly spelt salivations of the anti-A1 brigade, and more badly conceived open standard PPC drivelings from another regular member, and of course the same old pre-pubescent rantings I have heard so many, many times before... So this time, I'm not even going to bother arguing, but just post this to annoy some people. You know who you are.

You people don't like A1? It's the new Amiga, so get used to it. You say anyone who buys it are suckers? Well, allow me on the behalf of all present and future A1 purchasers to both say I have very little interest in your trollings, and to humbly present my polished derriere for you to osculate. Thank you.

[samface]

...and now he claims that Linux is more user-friendly than AmigaOS. *sigh*

Whatever, man...