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Offline jjansTopic starter

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Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« on: February 25, 2006, 06:16:39 AM »
This PC by Cybernet seems to have made use of the console concept, that made the A500 so popular:

cybernetman.com

If I remember right, Commodore originaly went with the console design in the A500, to appeal to the gaming market, by not having the appearance of a stuffy business box.

Funny to see the console come back full circle, appealing to the stuffy business market.

Makes me wonder if maybe there would be a use for a dead A500 I have for parts. Then again, the thought of 'Intel inside' an Amiga makes me shudder....
 
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Offline InTheSand

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 06:49:15 AM »
It's odd to see who this is aimed at... My opinion is that anyone would be better off with a laptop / notebook PC instead...

 - Ali
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 07:58:44 AM »
@jjans
The C64c was a console design similar to this.


It's a bit of a strange concept. On the one hand this unit is portable in that the computer, keyboard and mouse is all in one. On the other hand it's not portable because you still need a monitor. I agree Ali that if it's portability you're after, a laptop would be much better. However, this unit would be good for saving desk space if you still want a large monitor.

I quite like the white one actually. Now that the Intel version of OSX has been hacked to run on non-Apple equipment, I wonder if it will work on this unit.....

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Offline Marco

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 10:33:21 AM »
@motorollin
And the C64c was simply a new case meant to mimic the design of the C128 case. Really of course the wedge shape can be traced back (for Commodore at least) as far as the VIC-1001 (Japanese model released before the VIC-20 to test the waters for the design).

@jjans
If you don't like the idea of Intel inside your Miggy, go with Via, check out their mini-itx boards, fanless and noiseless - someone even stuck one inside a C64 case: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c64/ they're 17cm*17cm square IIRC, so they'll fit in pretty much anything. I'm planning on getting a spare A1200 case from the Escom era and gutting it and putting one of those mini-itx boards in there, plus with flexible AGP riser ribbons/adapters you can mount a GFX board in flat next to the main board, just cut some holes in the back to fit the backplanes for the board, firewire/USB and GFX board and a hole for a slimline DVD drive, mount everything inside and you're away. Could use it to run UAE under Windoze or Linux, or even run AROS - pretty much the closest we'll get to a modern Amiga, in the fantastic case stylings of the 1200 (or 500 if that's your 'bag').
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Offline Morax

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 12:48:42 PM »
I think the Playstation 3 is going to be more like an Amiga: A non-microsoft/intel multimedia machine which happens to be very suited, and has all the hardware onboard, for games... AND you can just hook it op to your living-room TV without additional hardware...  8-)  :oops:
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Offline Marco

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 02:00:50 PM »
Not really at all, because an Amiga is a computer, not a console. Can you make artwork on a PS3? Or type letters, or make 3D art or surf the net, or send emails or chat with friends?.. It also has no keyboard or mouse and can't connect to a monitor.

It has an onboard GPU, but that GPU is still externally sourced, just like a PC, they just put it on the same bit of silicon as the processor instead of on a daughterboard. Also what is with people praising IBM for simply not being Intel? That doesn't mean they make good processors; I'm not disputing the revolutionary nature of the Cell architecture, but it's never gonna make it to a computer platform like Amiga or Mac or Windoze, the last desktop processor they made, the G5 is just ancient now.

x86 won the war in 1981 when the clones arrived, people just refuse to accept it, sure we could deny it while everyone else in the industry was using 68k - Amiga, Atari-ST, Mac, NeXT, BeOS, etc. but it's been a foregone conclusion since Win95 that nothing is going to displace Intel clones - not even Intel could do it! Anyone remember Itanium?

That's why I personally think AROS is the only way forward left, MorphOS is nice, but its hardware dependance is just as much a death-sentence as that of OS4, AROS runs on cheap ubiquitous hardware that is constantly being updated and massively outstrips anything PPC can currently produce.
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Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2006, 05:08:16 PM »
Quote

Marco wrote:
Not really at all, because an Amiga is a computer, not a console. Can you make artwork on a PS3? Or type letters, or make 3D art or surf the net, or send emails or chat with friends?.. It also has no keyboard or mouse and can't connect to a monitor.

It has USB ports for all of the above and comes with Linux on its hard drive.  Whether the PS3 version of Linux is usable remains to be seen but I think that it will have the same functionality of the version of Windows Media Ceter edition on the XBox 360.
Quote

It has an onboard GPU, but that GPU is still externally sourced, just like a PC, they just put it on the same bit of silicon as the processor instead of on a daughterboard. Also what is with people praising IBM for simply not being Intel? That doesn't mean they make good processors; I'm not disputing the revolutionary nature of the Cell architecture, but it's never gonna make it to a computer platform like Amiga or Mac or Windoze, the last desktop processor they made, the G5 is just ancient now.

The Cell is kind of like a C64 in the way that it deals with its local-store memory and DMA to access all of the expansion memory.  It's not that much like an Amiga but it has the capabilities to kick butt for the hackers who are willing to take advantage of it.
Quote

x86 won the war in 1981 when the clones arrived, people just refuse to accept it, sure we could deny it while everyone else in the industry was using 68k - Amiga, Atari-ST, Mac, NeXT, BeOS, etc. but it's been a foregone conclusion since Win95 that nothing is going to displace Intel clones - not even Intel could do it! Anyone remember Itanium?

Who really cares about the clones when the latest version of AmigaOS won't run on the PC anyway.  AROS is good but AmigaOS is better.  BTW the clones didn't stand a chance until Motorola licenced the 68000 archetecture to Intel for use in the 386 design.
Quote

That's why I personally think AROS is the only way forward left, MorphOS is nice, but its hardware dependance is just as much a death-sentence as that of OS4, AROS runs on cheap ubiquitous hardware that is constantly being updated and massively outstrips anything PPC can currently produce.

You've forgotten about the capabilities of the Cell processor already?  It will blow the doors off of a PC for anyone willing and able to remember how to program a RAM-expanded C64 or an Intel 8086 PC with expanded memory adapter.
 

Offline nyteschayde

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2006, 05:08:33 PM »
Quick tear it open and shove your 1200 guts inside. At least it has a cd-rom bay. :)
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Offline Marco

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2006, 09:06:03 PM »
Quote

SamuraiCrow wrote:
It has USB ports for all of the above and comes with Linux on its hard drive.  Whether the PS3 version of Linux is usable remains to be seen but I think that it will have the same functionality of the version of Windows Media Ceter edition on the XBox 360.


Yes, because the WMC on the 360 is perfectly usable as an OS :roll: (yes I have used it on my bro's 360). As for the PS3, woo so you can spend EVEN MORE money than the arm and a leg Sony will charge you for the console to get a USB keyboard and mouse, and do what with them exactly? I highly doubt the Linux that comes pre-installed will be made to be usable as a real end-user OS, probably more akin to the WindowsCE was it that was on the Dreamcast. In order for it to become a usable system an end-user such as myself and the majority of people who may own the console would have to wait for hackers to port something usable to the hardware.

Quote
The Cell is kind of like a C64 in the way that it deals with its local-store memory and DMA to access all of the expansion memory.  It's not that much like an Amiga but it has the capabilities to kick butt for the hackers who are willing to take advantage of it.


Woo and yay for those hackers who will bother to do such things, but I doubt we'll see a 'scene' like back in the C64 or Amiga days

[/quote]Who really cares about the clones when the latest version of AmigaOS won't run on the PC anyway.  AROS is good but AmigaOS is better.  BTW the clones didn't stand a chance until Motorola licenced the 68000 archetecture to Intel for use in the 386 design.[/quote]

Exactly how is OS4 better than AROS? The only difference is OS4 is being made for antediluvian hardware with no forseeable upgrade path (don't anyone dare say cell-based A1, it's never gonna happen in a million ice-ages) and it's in a more finished state, purely because there is a team working on it as their job, they've been paid to do OS4, AROS developers are incredibly small in number, and only work sporadically on it because they have real life jobs/commitments, on top of which they have had to completely re-implement the OS from scratch with no access to the source code which AmigaInc think is still profitable

Quote
You've forgotten about the capabilities of the Cell processor already?  It will blow the doors off of a PC for anyone willing and able to remember how to program a RAM-expanded C64 or an Intel 8086 PC with expanded memory adapter.


As I said just above Cell is not going to come to desktop computing, IBM simply have no interest in the desktop market anymore. Without the support of Apple they have no incentive to develop for a niche so small the average member of the public doesn't even know it exists. They make a mint off of embedded applications like car ECUs, industrial machinery, consoles, etc. why would they risk (no pun intended) going back into the desktop PC market? Especially with a solution as expensive as Cell processors when the OS that is about 90% of the desktop market has no intentions of ever supporting them?

Finally remember the iron law of console-Vs-PC arguments - a console will (should) outstrip PCs in terms of raw graphical and processing power when it initially arrives, and in the case of the 360 and PS3, they do, quite nicely. However, within a year, year and a half tops, the PC market always closes the gap and then shoots ahead. Already developers Bethesda Softworks have had to cut some advanced lighting effects from their latest game (Oblivion) because it was too ambitious for the 360, the particular lighting effects were also going to be available as a toggable option in the graphics options of the PC version to 'scale up' in the future, but they cut it for us Windoze users aswell to ensure complete equality between the two versions. :roll:

Consoles may have started to turn into home computers in the Commodore/Atari/Amstrad/Sinclair style but they've got a fair way to go yet before they actually become proper hybrids like the machines of the late 80s/early 90s
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Offline AmiDude

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2006, 09:21:43 PM »
Blah-bla-bla....
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Offline Marco

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2006, 01:12:40 AM »
Er, what a thought provoking and interesting addition to the discussion that was AmiDude. Your insight is awe-inspiring. :roll:
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Offline SamuraiCrow

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2006, 01:38:43 AM »
Quote

Marco wrote:

Exactly how is OS4 better than AROS? The only difference is OS4 is being made for antediluvian hardware with no forseeable upgrade path (don't anyone dare say cell-based A1, it's never gonna happen in a million ice-ages) and it's in a more finished state, purely because there is a team working on it as their job, they've been paid to do OS4, AROS developers are incredibly small in number, and only work sporadically on it because they have real life jobs/commitments, on top of which they have had to completely re-implement the OS from scratch with no access to the source code which AmigaInc think is still profitable

You've just answered your own question.  For an explanation of why I think AROS should be limited to a hosted environment and quit trying to be AmigaOS 4,
view this thread.

Quote

Consoles may have started to turn into home computers in the Commodore/Atari/Amstrad/Sinclair style but they've got a fair way to go yet before they actually become proper hybrids like the machines of the late 80s/early 90s.


Games are the hardest programs for any computer to run.  Once you have something that will run games, the rest will be easy to come up with.  This just depends on how much Sony wants to keep their promise and make a full-fledged computer out of the PS3.
 

Offline mikrucio

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2006, 05:57:46 AM »
commodore outsourced their custom chips asswell.
to hitachi and toshiba look on the chips. some were made inhouse. outsourcing is no new thing.

just about all the custom chips of the ps3 are outsourced. even the mobo is built by others to sony specs.

the ps3 is what the latest amiga should have been in ALL aspects. except we would probably be at os12 by now.

sigh. the amiga is in the land of the thumb twiddlers.
 

Offline foleyjo

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2006, 12:58:03 PM »
It  reminds me of the Amiga Fantasy project
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Offline uncharted

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Re: Console style PC - familiar somehow...
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2006, 03:59:48 PM »
Quote

Marco wrote:

Exactly how is OS4 better than AROS?


More features and better software support.  Surely that is what counts in an OS?

I don't know about you, but when I sit down in front of a computer, I'm not really too fussed in how it was made, I care about what it can do.