Marco wrote:
They have momentum now, they were not always in such a situation, they started with no momentum and with nothing to offer the end user until some coders decided they'd be the first to suppor the platform while everyone else said 'I'm not supporting that because no one else does'. Someone has to be the first to support any new platform...
AROS has been in existence for a very long time, and yet it has no momentum. It's been struggling for years. There is clearly more to it than developers being reluctant to be the first to dip their toe in the pool. There is a fundamental question of "Why isn't AROS attractive?"
Again 'I'm not supporting it because no one else is' doesn't really hold up as a valid argument here,
You can't say "no excuses", it's a person's right to develop what they want. Any argument is valid. That isn't the only argument anyway.
it may be sound business not to support a minority platform, but not all developers are in it for the money.
And virtually none are in the Amiga community, so that can't be the answer to the problem.
As for the 900 files on OS4 depot, most of those will be recompiles of old 68k stuff. The whole point of AROS being source compatible is that old 68k stuff can be recompiled just the same as was done for OS4 programs.
Even if that is the case, people still aren't doing it. And that is a problem. Like I said, I can't run "could". Someone "could" port Mozilla to AmigaOS 4, that doesn't mean that AmigaOS 4 has a modern browser.
I can't do much to get their support beyond nagging them to make their programs run on AROS, which is not exactly hard if they already run on MOS/OS4/OS3x given the massive similarities between the 4 OSs.
Dear lord! You think that this is a good way of encouraging development? Pissing and moaning at people rarely get results.
Once again (I'm hoping if I keep repeating my point enough, you might actually take it in) despite this supposed easy-ness no-one is making AROS versions. This can mean one of two things.
Either it isn't as easy as you suggest to port stuff to AROS (lack of APIs, tools, lots of tweaks need to be made etc.), or there is something unattractive about AROS that makes developers feel that it isn't work their time.
There just seems to be some stubborn refusal to support AROS that I cannot fathom.
I again think it goes back to the idea that no one wants to be the first project to support AROS. Either that or it's an architecture phobia, all the "PPC ruleZ!" stuff on AW.net suggests this, but I don't think the ones doing development are really that naïve.
You seem content to rest the blame for this solely at the feet of the developers. What I’m saying is that there must be more to it than this, you can’t just blame everyone else for your problems, you need to reflect upon it and be pro-active in finding a solution. “Developers don’t support AROS because they suck” isn’t going find a solution.
I think what samuraiCrow was trying to point out with that link is that the Core AROS developers are not interested in changing their current culture. This needs to happen in order for new blood to be enticed into developing for AROS. There doesn’t seem to be any strategy, everything just kind of happens.
I never suggested people shouldn't mention the flaws in AROS, nor did I suggest that they shouldn't support OS4 if they really want to,
Yes you did. You were saying that SamauriCrow was “badmouthing” AROS, and that it was a consequence of this that people won’t develop on it. This is one of the dumbest things I’ve read so far. Whether you like it or not, comparisons with OS4 will be made, and AROS is going to loose out. MorphOS is probably a better example, it’s got available, affordable, hardware and it is again far more advanced and useful than AROS, not to mention it has excellent support from developers.
do you really think BeOS had much of a future when it was stranded on outdated expensive hardware with no sign of future hardware development? Or would you say it's future looks brighter now that it's been cloned (Haiku) and made hardware neutral.
Uh, BeOS has been on x86 since the late 90’s, Haiku has nothing to do with it. BeOS’s future is bright because of Zeta.
BTW Plum!?
It was the politest way of describing how incredibly stupid you were being. I can go to the harsher end of the spectrum in future if that makes you more comfortable.
integrated EUAE is a future goal of AROS, it's not exactly high priority at this time and as I have said above - recompile that's how most of OS4's library of applications was originally made up before new stuff was written specifically for it, the same can be done for AROS.
You don’t seem to fundamentally understand what is meant here. Recompiling doesn’t come into it. The way you tout that word, anyone would think you’re Ben Hermans. Most of the Amiga library is 68K. Worse than that, the majority of it is old closed source stuff that is no longer maintained. Without the ability to run older apps, AOS4 and MOS would be close to AROS in the useful-as-a-chocolate-teapot stakes. Amiga users still rely on 68k stuff.
You assume that this stuff is all easy.
As to the UAE integration, it isn’t an official plan, it’s a bounty. It’s up to a developer to decide to take it on. From what I’ve seen, this isn’t really something the core developers want to do. It seems that they want to keep the emulation separated as an application rather than as an OS feature.
From what is stated in the bounty it still wouldn’t give the same level of integration that AOS/MOS users enjoy. Basically it would be good enough for some people but not acceptable for others.
At this time yes, you can't do much. I don't sit in front of 'nothing', I currently sit infront of XP unfortunately, AROS is a nice diversion for the moment, but it at least has a future, my A1200's future, is that eventually some component will fail and I'll be unable to repair it and it'll go into a cupboard to gather dust or be cannibalised for parts.
You seem to be getting hardware and software mixed up. One day your PC will die too. When your A1200 dies you could still use OS 3.x under emulation if you wish, just as if your PC dies you can run XP on a different machine.
Now you're being a pear, or a zuchini, I dunno pick whatever fruit you like,
Uh okay. Where did I say something stupid in the quote you are replying to? Since when has common sense been stupid?
I use my computer for surprisingly few things, to surf the net, write my coursework for uni, listen to music, and maybe watch the odd movie file or look at some pictures. So for me to be able to us an OS it doesn't really need much in the way of apps anyway: if AROS could just have a decent browser, a decent office suite and a decent music/movie player, I'd be using it right now and for most of my time on the computer.
But AROS can’t do any of those things now, and won’t do in the foreseeable future. AmigaOS doesn’t necessarily have ‘decent’ versions of that kind of software, but it does have things that can perform those tasks.
The point is users (including you) aren’t going to run out to download AROS if it doesn’t do what they need it to. It doesn’t do that stuff because no-one outside of the AROS core is developing for it. There must be reasons why people aren’t developing for AROS. Find out why that is, do something to fix that, then things will progress.
It makes it crap in the sense that I and the millions of computer users around the world cannot use it at all. How is that any different from being able to use it but not having any apps?
Again, you’re mixing up hardware and software. Millions of computer users in the world wouldn’t be interested in running AmigaOS 4, MorphOS, or AROS regardless of the hardware. That’s a cold hard fact.
Hardware is freely available for AROS, and yet still no-one uses it. What does that tell you?
