Quick Gary Hare IRC report, no more 3rd party AmigaOS after OS4.0.

[SHADES]

@Cymric
That's a very downing speech you gave there.
I wonder if that's how oppressed people during wars felt.
Some of those wars went on for years and 10s of years with no end in site.
The only thing people had left was hope and the belief that it would end to give a brighter future.
I think it's the same in everything you do in life. To give up  on something you believe in is to give up on living.
To me life is all about overcoming obsticals and striving for a better future. Families escaped Russia through China in the 2nd World war and they did this by squandering money. If you got caught doing this in China back then, you were shot where you stood. No questions, no nothing.
Some of these people hung on to hope and migrated. They fled to contries like US and AUS and most were able to make a life. Enough to get into homes and schooled and through UNI.

I hope I don't need to read to many posts like yours. Most people would be shot down in e-mail on site for being caught believing in AMIGA and a future.

Guess what, I believe, so come get me. You're not going to make everyone feel like no hope is left. You want to be realistic?? wars are very real. If people give up, they loose. Now that's the reality of life !


Then again, their only your views lol. I really shouldn't let them get to me the way it did. I must be tired.

[SHADES]

@restore2003


" Tsk tsk, and i thought the war was over.........

Why is there a war any longer anyway?
Nobody that is tired of shouting at eachother?
We ALL have the same roots ffs!"



War isn't over until people stop attacking. Well that's the way it seems to happen.

[HyperionMP]

Can't you find a new hobby? Please?

It's truly embarassing to see someone being wrong so consistently.

Ben?

To whom are you speaking?

Wayne

[Glaucus]

Seehund wrote:

So? That semi-mainstream hardware would still have to be sold by a "special" licensed vendor outside that semi-mainstream, if you want to run AmigaOS on it.

Maybe, maybe not - if what I said happens the market could change so drastically that today's Amiga hardware policies may be forced to change. Secondly, even if they don't, PPC technology will become more competetive on all fronts against the x86 line. Even if Eyetech still charges us more then Apple would for the same hardware, the overall price will still go down for both systems.

And there is semi-mainstream PPC consumer hardware today. Macs. Though that doesn't help us. Not because it can't help us, but because it's not ALLOWED to help us, and then I'm not talking about Apple but the compan(y|ies) that supposedly would have an interest in improving AmigaOS sales and market size.

Well, Apple certainly won't help us, and they would need to do so to make iMac's a viable option for Hyperion to invest their time and effort in porting any OS to it. But not only that, try buying an iMac without OSX pre-installed.

Don't get me wrong Seehund, I've been a strong advocate for porting AmigaOS to the x86 line right from the beginning. I fought bitterly with Ben on ann.lu years ago, but that battle was lost.

Regarding "in-house development" of "an Internet OS" or whatever, I'll believe it when I see it, and right now there is no reason whatsoever to believe that anyone will ever see it. That's unless you count "bbbbut AInc said so!" as a reason...

Honestly, who cares? I wish them the best of luck. All I care about is OS4.X, why even bring up AA?

  - Mike

[SHADES]

@Glaucus

"Honestly, who cares? I wish them the best of luck. All I care about is OS4.X, why even bring up AA?"

I have to agree 100%
Who cares because all I want is OS4 too. I have no idea why I debate anything else. If people want the OS, it will suceed and the company with it.
As for AA, heck if it improves sales for the company who owns AOS, bring that on too, the more help for AOS, the better.

Bring on OS4.

[lofstudio]

Glaucus wrote:
But not only that, try buying an iMac without OSX pre-installed.

Go to www.yellowdoglinux.com, and you'll get close. Granted, the Macs that Terra Soft sells are dual-booting, either Linux or OS X. But one distinction is that Linux is the primary OS. You must go to the Open Firmware boot screen to load OS X.

[Pyromania]

Your right Wayne the price of entry is kind of high but @ least from a developer standpoint DiscreetFX finds Amiga OS 4.0 and MorphOS for that matter worthwhile and we are developing for it. And while a lack of software is a liability to you, to a developer it is an opportunity. We have high hopes for AOS 4 & MOS and time will tell. Go ahead and get that Mac Mini, we greatly enjoy the 2.5 Ghz Dual G5 that Apple gave us, you will find OS X a joy to use. Nothing like the very dated and underpowered Mac OS 9 and lower of former years.

[Waccoon]

Wayne:  I read the follow up, and while I thank him for taking the time, it didn't really fill in any blanks where I'm concerned. Just sounded like more of the same we've heard for the last 5 years.

True, but he repeatedly said that he is honoring Hyperion and Eyetech contracts, and letting them steer the direction of OS4.  My interpretation, along with HyperionMP's statement that Amiga has had no significant contribution to OS4, tells me anything other than AA is essentially out of their hands.

Which is probably just as well.  If they're not interested in an OS that bears their own damned brand name...

AI have already released game packs weather you think they are cheesy is irrelevent. I haven't seen any OS4 released yet, at least they have released something.

I suppose.  It's just that it doesn't look any different or more advanced than the first game pack released years ago.

Me:  Yes, they both should -- if they expect people to acutally buy their products.

A company is nothing without its reputation.

SHADES:  That's just silly, no company in their right mind would disclose all their future plans.

I'm not talking about future plans or an extensive, 10-year projection, here.  It should be obvious by now that "plans" are unimportant.  More like, what can AA do that other platforms cannot?  What's special about it?  What does it do now?  Well, they can't really tell you, but they did release some new games that don't really need the capabilities of their platform, and can easily be done on all their competitors' platforms.

It's too bad you think that the cheezyness is irrelevant, because that's exactly what Amiga is using to sell their product.  Detailed information about the platform's capabilities is vital to long-term survival.

Java didn't become popular becuase they used Amiga Inc. business tactics.  Hell, Sun has a very impressive documentation archive.  You don't need the SDK, or even the runtime, to see what it can do.

Glaucus:  Honestly, who cares? I wish them the best of luck. All I care about is OS4.X, why even bring up AA?

I'm the opposite, because architecture like OS4 is obsolete, and the idea of AA is promising, even if what they are doing with it is complete crap.

[Kronos]

Wayne wrote:
Ben?

To whom are you speaking?

Wayne

To the mirror (obviously)  :-P

Bout that game-pack "released" by AInc:

The games were made be Zeneo (and others ??), the engine by TAO and who knows who did the packaging....

Even if they did those games, they are all combined no more than 1 years work for a talented developer and maybe another year fot the graphican.

The onl thing AInc seems to have done themself is that auto-scaling feature, not very imperessive for a 5 year journey (and I wouldn't be suprised to find out even that was done by someone else).

[bloodline]

With modern PDAs and Phones being introduced with 3D chips, the whole idea of AmigaDE's cheesy game packs seem less and less relevant to a modern market.

[MskoDestny]

Waccoon wrote:
I'm the opposite, because architecture like OS4 is obsolete, and the idea of AA is promising, even if what they are doing with it is complete crap.

Are you saying that OS4 is obsolete compared to other operating systems or that natively compiled programs running on natively compiled operating systems are obsolete and we should all just move to Java or .NET?

I would disagree with both assertions.  While OS4 lacks some modern OS features (comprehensive memory protection, journaling file systems etc.) it's certainly not stuck in the stone ages.  It's unfortunate the new amiga.com site doesn't have those articles on the steps to modernize Amiga OS for version 4, they were a rather good read.

As for device independent stuff like Java and .NET, natively compiled programs will never go away.  Large applications  like Adobe Photoshop or OO.o take an unacceptably long time to start even on a 1.8GHz machine.  The Eclipse IDE is noticeably slowed by the fact that it's not a native application.  Java and .NET are great technologies and they have their place, but I don't see them taking over the world.

I don't see how AA is promising.  I don't see anything it can do that can't be done as well or better by its competitors.  At least OS 4 has a few competitive (lean, fast, runs system friendly 68K apps quickly and seamlessly, etc.) advantages even if they are overshadowed by other shortcomings.

[SHADES]

@Waccoon

"I'm not talking about future plans or an extensive, 10-year projection, here. It should be obvious by now that "plans" are unimportant. More like, what can AA do that other platforms cannot? What's special about it? What does it do now? Well, they can't really tell you, but they did release some new games that don't really need the capabilities of their platform, and can easily be done on all their competitors' platforms."

I guess that's fair enough Waccoon, the thing is you just don't know what AIs 10 year plan is. It may well be OS4 or intergration of AA into AOS or a completly new way of thinking for desktop/handheld enviroments.
I would say it must have something to do with it because they are being very tight lipped about it all.
SUN were also very tight lipped when JAVA was in conception. People knew that they were working on something supposedly revolutionary, but that's about it. Now that it's available, sure!
My thoughts on this whole bit are that AI are still working on AA, maybe it's bigger than what we have seen so far. Maybe you only saw the cheezy bit.

Look, even i'm speculating about AIs future plans here, I don't have any real evidece appart from the obvious like OS4 is going to be a release etc... The thing is, if it's critical to the companies success, they are not going to say much. You could also see this as a positive! That they(AI) are kind of banking on it??

[SHADES]

@ All,

Just to throw a bone in the works, I too must admit, I find the hardware platform for AMIGA a little too pricy. I will still save to buy one, but I hope the price drops a bit. $50 won't even fill my tank of petrol these days, yet I can go buy a 900Mhz P3 for that. lol

ok, ok, that's second hand probably doesn't count lol

> yet I can go buy a 900Mhz P3 for that.

While not exactly $50, you can get a PIII / 933 with mATX motherboard, cpu and fan for $85.00 according to Pricewatch.  About the same speed and features at about 1/8th the price.

From Pricewatch;

eMachines - Pinole/P933

*In Stock* - eMachines Pinole Socket 370 Intel i810E chipset 133MHz FSB Audio & Video mATX 3-PCI/1-CNRSlots with cpu - Intel Pentium III 933MHz Socket 370 with fan and heatsink [White Box]

If you look around in the Good Will stores, you could find an entire system for less than $100, but that would be used so it probably doesn't count.

Wayne

[SirLancelotDuLac]

Wayne wrote:
I read the follow up, and while I thank him for taking the time, it didn't really fill in any blanks where I'm concerned.  Just sounded like more of the same we've heard for the last 5 years.  

I'm afraid that after 5 years of the SOS, only a full and complete disclosure (without doublespeak) would ever suffice to instill any sort of trust or belief that the future was anything but dead-ended.  Anything short of that is just the SOS we've all heard before.

Wayne,

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with you to some extent, even a full disclosure is the "SOS we've all heard before."

The only way it is not the SOS is for them to just shut-up and produce something.  I would much rather they spend their resources producing something than talking about producing something.  I would rather them produce a product that I can not stand than talk about producing something I might want.  I would also rather them not talk about 5 business partnerships that succeed than talk about 1 business deal that eventually fails. (Sharp Zauras PDA anyone?)

As much as I might enjoy knowing all the ins and outs about what is going on, I would much rather know nothing and have Amiga Inc. succeed at its business endeavors than know everything and watch it fail.

At this point, I am in the wait and see mode and am happy to stay there until they finally succeed or fail.  As a fellow business man, I certainly wish them the best and hope it is the former, and not the later.