potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:
A quick note about Nintendo:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7848

Also, Nintendo only lost the #2 spot this Christmas shopping season due to the spurred sales of people wanting to play HALO 2.  

Yes, they lost it, and have yet to gain it back.  All indications prior showed MS and GC in dead heat with Sony waaaaaay out front.  Remember, we're talking about console only, not handheld.  The only reason Nintendo can continue to operate they way they do is because of Gameboy sales.  (ie. failures like Virtual Boy and Gamecube would likely bankrupt a lesser company)

The dark horse is Nintendo.  What I've read so far is that once again an existing chip (G5) is being enhanced per Nintendo specs (just like the G3 was) and it will include a 15GB hard drive.  Not to mention no-fee online play features and built-in Wi-Fi capabilities.  This CPU is called 'Broadway'.

This is nothhing new for Nintendo.  Remember the N64 used a custom MIPS CPU.  

As for the online play, I'll believe it when I see it.  In the case of the GCN it was a waste because the small number of games that supported it.  

It will also act as a hub for the Nintendo DS handheld to allow it to go online for free as well.

See above.  Had they used standard wifi you could do this now, not have to wait for the service to be available.  I play Twisted Metal free now on my PSP using my home router.

It will be backwards compatible with GC software and controllers as well.  It seems like Nintendo learns from it's mistakes and competitors quickly.

Define "quickly".  This is Nintendo's first home console with backwards compatibility.  I wouldn't say 20+ years is quick.

There are too many +'s to own Revolution over the other sytems.  The only real reason to own some other system for the next-gen is to play some exclusive titles.  As far as first party games, Nintendo has them all beat hands down.

The big -'s are that it doesn't exist.  So, you shouldn't bet on a winner this early in the game.  

As for first party games, if you want to play yet another Mario game, then sure.  But, Nintendo puts out lots of stinkers (Luigi's Mansion, Star Fox Adventures, WarioWare, etc.?) using their licensees.  If we were talking strictly about the GCN, then you could say the only reason to buy a GCN would be to play a few exclusive titles.

 

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:


Yes, they lost it, and have yet to gain it back.  All indications prior showed MS and GC in dead heat with Sony waaaaaay out front.  Remember, we're talking about console only, not handheld.  The only reason Nintendo can continue to operate they way they do is because of Gameboy sales.  (ie. failures like Virtual Boy and Gamecube would likely bankrupt a lesser company)

If a system makes the company money (like the GC did) how can it be called a failure?  Maybe they didn't quite reach the target # of units but they didn't lose the hundreds of millions that Microsoft did/is.  Nintendo profited from GC sales.  Even at $125, the system was making a profit for them on sales of the console.  Even Sony was able to make a profit or minor loss on sales of the console.  That's another reason MS is first out of the box with a new machine.  That's another reason why x360 won't include a harddrive or go to HD-DVD - to cut costs.

As for the online play, I'll believe it when I see it.  In the case of the GCN it was a waste because the small number of games that supported it.

I wouldn't doubt some sort of advertizement scheme when you 'go online' or just charging an extra $20 for a game that you can play online as sort of a one-time fee per game.  The network is being developed by Gamespy.  If Nintendo says free, that means I won't have to pay a monthly fee to play online.  It doesn't mean that they won't sell upgrade and extra maps like with Xbox Live...all I can say is that there will be no monthly fee to play across the planet.

See above.  Had they used standard wifi you could do this now, not have to wait for the service to be available.  I play Twisted Metal free now on my PSP using my home router.

The DS does support 802.11B but no games are taking advantage of it yet as the network backbone is still being developed.  Hey, how do you like buying 8 copies of a game in order to play against 7 of your near-by PSP-owning friends?  Not so on the DS, everyone just downloads it from the one with the copy and all can join in on the fun.  Advantage - Nintendo.

Define "quickly".  This is Nintendo's first home console with backwards compatibility.  I wouldn't say 20+ years is quick.

It's obvious you are just a Nintendo-hater.  That's fine, I'm an admitted MS-hater but I can still look at things objectively.

The big -'s are that it doesn't exist.  So, you shouldn't bet on a winner this early in the game.  

As for first party games, if you want to play yet another Mario game, then sure.  But, Nintendo puts out lots of stinkers (Luigi's Mansion, Star Fox Adventures, WarioWare, etc.?) using their licensees.  If we were talking strictly about the GCN, then you could say the only reason to buy a GCN would be to play a few exclusive titles.

Revolution will exist...Just more hate on your part.  F-Zero, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 1 & 2 - did you forget those?  Excellent games.  MP2 was runner-up to game of the year across many a magazine.  Fire Emblem?  Star Fox Assault is kick ass.  S F Adventures was an excellent game but varied from the traditional S F formula and that's the only bad thing anyone can say about it.  Also, Nintendo has stated that it will start NEW franchises, more 'adult' ones on Revolution.  Oh lest not we forget Zelda.  This coming holiday season will see Link in all his glory and only on the Gamecube.

And yes, Mario 128 will be a launch title and it will kick ass and break ground like Mario 64 did.

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:

Define "quickly".  This is Nintendo's first home console with backwards compatibility.  I wouldn't say 20+ years is quick.

It's obvious you are just a Nintendo-hater.  That's fine, I'm an admitted MS-hater but I can still look at things objectively.

You look at things objectively?  Not so far.

Not sure where the "Nintendo-hater" came from.  I have a huge collection of Nintendo products from the NES to GCN (including Japanese systems like a SFC, the Panasonic Q, etc.) as well as a ton of games both US and Japanese.  I don't know where the hate comes in when I'm just stating a fact.  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

The big -'s are that it doesn't exist.  So, you shouldn't bet on a winner this early in the game.  

Revolution will exist...Just more hate on your part.

Learn to read please.  

The specs are hardly finalized enough to have any idea of how good the system and/or games will be and how it will stack up against other consoles in development.

 F-Zero, Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 1 & 2 - did you forget those?  Excellent games.  MP2 was runner-up to game of the year across many a magazine.  Fire Emblem?  Star Fox Assault is kick ass.  S F Adventures was an excellent game but varied from the traditional S F formula and that's the only bad thing anyone can say about it.  Also, Nintendo has stated that it will start NEW franchises, more 'adult' ones on Revolution.  Oh lest not we forget Zelda.  This coming holiday season will see Link in all his glory and only on the Gamecube.

Again, try reading the message, not looking for some secret meaning.  Sure, they have some good games, every console does.  But, Nintendo tends to take it's licensed characters and make bad sequels to games.  SFA is a perfect example.  It was originally a N64 game (or DD, I can't remember) that was cancelled, needing GCN games, Nintendo repackaged it with Starfox characters and the result was just not that special.  

And yes, Mario 128 will be a launch title and it will kick ass and break ground like Mario 64 did.

Pure speculation, since nobody has ever seen a single frame of the game running.  

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:
Hey, how do you like buying 8 copies of a game in order to play against 7 of your near-by PSP-owning friends?  Not so on the DS, everyone just downloads it from the one with the copy and all can join in on the fun.  Advantage - Nintendo.

Some more facts for you...

- Not all games will support "DS Download Play" single game card multiplayer, some games still need copies for each player.
- Of the games that do support it often they don't offer the complete game in multiplayer. (ie like GBA single pak multiplayer)
- PSP games like THUG and Twisted Metal DO support this (un-oficially)
- PSP works on wireless LAN/hotspot NOW (not in development, promised, etc.  NOW!)
Advantage - PSP

[Insanity]

About the Dreamcast...

If I recall correctly, the dreacast featured a ~200 mhz MIPS(EDIT:Thanks Waccoon), and a Power-VR2 graphics chip.

If you recall, SEGA used two devteams, kind of like apple back in the beginning(AppleII versus Mac?? help me here). One US team and one Japanese team.

The US team featured a 3Dfx chip and its rendition of the dreamcast was more powerful.

Unfortunately 3Dfx did an IPO (initial public stock offering), and released all facts about the not yet signed contract. SEGA didn't like this, so they cancelled the whole US dev team and went with the other alternative (before the IPO from 3Dfx, the US team's idea was basically chosen)

http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/june03/dumbestmoments/readers/index3.shtml

Makes me sad to read.
Despite the fact that this might not have helped 3Dfx retain the 3D performance crown it might have kept the company alive.

[Waccoon]

lou_dias:  It's not a question of power but a question of software. Development tools exist on PC's so why reinvent the wheel. Afterall, compilers aren't just limited to compiling for the cpu they are currently running on anymore...

If consoles are just as powerful as PCs, as you contantly uphold, then there should be no re-inventing of the wheel.

lou, aimed at adolscent:  It's obvious you are just a Nintendo-hater. That's fine, I'm an admitted MS-hater but I can still look at things objectively.

Objectivity requires research, not heralding a system that has yet to be officially displayed.  Really, I think people should stop yakking about the next gen systems until al least after E3.

Also, it doesn't really help to hate any given platform.  Linux and Amiga people regularly fall into this pit, believing that Microsoft can do nothing right.

I mean, Linux people despise Microsoft, but almost every Linux GUI system looks just like Windows.  Red Hat 6 was a per-pixel copy of Win95, which really should have been a major embarrasment to geeks everywhere.

Oh lest not we forget Zelda. This coming holiday season will see Link in all his glory and only on the Gamecube.

And yes, Mario 128 will be a launch title and it will kick ass and break ground like Mario 64 did.

That's nice, especially since nobody knows anything about these games.  May we get back on topic?

adolscent:  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

I'm rather surprised that it took this long for any of the consoles to have any form of backwards compatibility.

I'd like to see when older titles will actually run better on new hardware.  This is still where all forms of PCs excell.  Software techniques on consoles are just not advanced enough these days.

The specs are hardly finalized enough to have any idea of how good the system and/or games will be and how it will stack up against other consoles in development.

Everything is blind hype in my opinion.  I'm more interested in what the machines will look like than what's on the inside.  I'll worry about specs when I can see one in the store.

If I hear any more about how Cell is "revolutionary", I'm going to puke.  The PS3 is still going to have a seperate GPU to do most of the work -- just like any other console.

I wonder how many people realize the overhead involved when working with so many cores?  I don't expect performance to be anything special.

But, Nintendo tends to take it's licensed characters and make bad sequels to games. SFA is a perfect example. It was originally a N64 game (or DD, I can't remember) that was cancelled, needing GCN games, Nintendo repackaged it with Starfox characters and the result was just not that special.

Doesn't everyone?

Still, at least Nintendo has a solid mascot.

Insanity:  If I recall correctly, the dreacast featured a ~200 mhz PPC, and a Power-VR2 graphics chip.

Dreamcast was based on Hitachi SH-4, the same architecture family as Saturn.

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:

It's obvious you are just a Nintendo-hater.  That's fine, I'm an admitted MS-hater but I can still look at things objectively.

You look at things objectively?  Not so far.

Not sure where the "Nintendo-hater" came from.  I have a huge collection of Nintendo products from the NES to GCN (including Japanese systems like a SFC, the Panasonic Q, etc.) as well as a ton of games both US and Japanese.  I don't know where the hate comes in when I'm just stating a fact.  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

Every opinion I've had, I've given my reasoning behind it.  I've even referenced articles when possible.

Re-read your previous post.  It's just one giant Nintendo diss.

The specs are hardly finalized enough to have any idea of how good the system and/or games will be and how it will stack up against other consoles in development.

This can be said of xbox360 and ps3 as well

Again, try reading the message, not looking for some secret meaning.  Sure, they have some good games, every console does.  But, Nintendo tends to take it's licensed characters and make bad sequels to games.  SFA is a perfect example.  It was originally a N64 game (or DD, I can't remember) that was cancelled, needing GCN games, Nintendo repackaged it with Starfox characters and the result was just not that special.

Maybe you never played the game... I have (and beat it) and like I said before, the only 'flaw' it had was the fact that it didn't follow the prior Star Fox formula which debuted on the SNES.  It is an excellent game in it's own right.

And yes, Mario 128 will be a launch title and it will kick ass and break ground like Mario 64 did.

Pure speculation, since nobody has ever seen a single frame of the game running.

Nintendo has announced this already.  What does you not seeing a frame have to do with the price of tea in China?

[seer]

Nintendo has announced this already.

eh... So because Nintendo announced the game it's gonna kick ass ?  :-?

[Louis Dias]

Waccoon wrote:

If consoles are just as powerful as PCs, as you contantly uphold, then there should be no re-inventing of the wheel.

So Nintendo should be using an original NES to create Gamecube software then?

lou, aimed at adolscent:  It's obvious you are just a Nintendo-hater. That's fine, I'm an admitted MS-hater but I can still look at things objectively.

Objectivity requires research, not heralding a system that has yet to be officially displayed.  Really, I think people should stop yakking about the next gen systems until al least after E3.

I have been objective.  I have given plain reasons for choosing Revolution over the other 2.  Also, I think MS has some great products.  I love Visual Studio.net and Office is excellent as is SQL Server.  I just don't like their business practices.  I think the XBOX is an under-powered PC and I alread own a PC.  I think Win2000 is the best OS they've put out yet - to heck with XP.

Oh lest not we forget Zelda. This coming holiday season will see Link in all his glory and only on the Gamecube.

And yes, Mario 128 will be a launch title and it will kick ass and break ground like Mario 64 did.

That's nice, especially since nobody knows anything about these games.  May we get back on topic?

You'll know more at E3.  And they are 2 excellent Zelda trailers available: http://www.nintendo.com/gameminiav?gameid=54610f14-1826-4d46-9981-8f72874aee2e&

adolscent:  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

I'm rather surprised that it took this long for any of the consoles to have any form of backwards compatibility.

I'd like to see when older titles will actually run better on new hardware.  This is still where all forms of PCs excell.  Software techniques on consoles are just not advanced enough these days.

Ditto.  But I suspect this may happen with Revolution and GC.

If I hear any more about how Cell is "revolutionary", I'm going to puke.  The PS3 is still going to have a seperate GPU to do most of the work -- just like any other console.

I wonder how many people realize the overhead involved when working with so many cores?  I don't expect performance to be anything special.

I agree.

To get back on-topic.  Since Revolution will use the same API as the GC, any work that could have been done on the GC port of AOS4 could have simply carried-on and continued for Revolution with less of the complaints about hardware capabilities...and you'd really have a system with modern hardware for way less than $1000.

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:
Hey, how do you like buying 8 copies of a game in order to play against 7 of your near-by PSP-owning friends?  Not so on the DS, everyone just downloads it from the one with the copy and all can join in on the fun.  Advantage - Nintendo.

Some more facts for you...

- Not all games will support "DS Download Play" single game card multiplayer, some games still need copies for each player.
- Of the games that do support it often they don't offer the complete game in multiplayer. (ie like GBA single pak multiplayer)
- PSP games like THUG and Twisted Metal DO support this (un-oficially)
- PSP works on wireless LAN/hotspot NOW (not in development, promised, etc.  NOW!)
Advantage - PSP

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7885

Considering the hype... If you look at Japanese sales, the PSP is losing ground again.  http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4645
Keep in mind that these are 2005 stats and don't include the launch of the DS in Japan. (sold over 500,000 at launch)

Advantage - Nintendo

adolscent: They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

Who they? Nintendo?

GBA is compatible with GBC and GB carts.
GBC is compatible with GB carts.

Atari had the 7800 which was backwards compatible too.

Amiga CD32 was compatible with CDTV titles too.

NGPC was compatible with NGP carts.

I'm sure there are countless other consoles that are backwards compatible too.

[coldfish]

Japanese PSP Sales Almost Double DS (News)

http://www.gamepro.com.au/index.php/id;702104525;fp;16;fpid;0

lou:
"But supposedly, X360 is using it's current DVD format, not HD-DVD."

Judging by all the  "...HD Era" talk in J Allard's keynote speech at GDC, you may be surprised yet?

Major studios back HD DVD

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/29/hollywood_hd_dvd/

[adonay]

coldfish wrote:
Japanese PSP Sales Almost Double DS (News)

http://www.gamepro.com.au/index.php/id;702104525;fp;16;fpid;0

Well the PSP is far better tho i know i have both or at leased my brother has.

adonay :-D

[adolescent]

mdma wrote:

adolscent: They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

Who they? Nintendo?

GBA is compatible with GBC and GB carts.
GBC is compatible with GB carts.

The discussion was refering to Nintendo "home consoles" only (or actually how Nintendo quickly learns from their mistakes and is offering backwards compatibility...  yet takes more than 20 years to actually come to that conclusion (not exactly quick)).

As you mentioned, most other brands have had some sort of backwards compatibility.  Of those you didn't mention Atari 5200/2600 (with add-on), Sega Megadrive/SMS (with add-on), PS2/PS1, etc.

[adolescent]

lou_dias wrote:

adolescent wrote:

Some more facts for you...

- Not all games will support "DS Download Play" single game card multiplayer, some games still need copies for each player.
- Of the games that do support it often they don't offer the complete game in multiplayer. (ie like GBA single pak multiplayer)
- PSP games like THUG and Twisted Metal DO support this (un-oficially)
- PSP works on wireless LAN/hotspot NOW (not in development, promised, etc.  NOW!)
Advantage - PSP

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7885

Considering the hype... If you look at Japanese sales, the PSP is losing ground again.  http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4645
Keep in mind that these are 2005 stats and don't include the launch of the DS in Japan. (sold over 500,000 at launch)

Advantage - Nintendo

Again, you ignore the facts.  Why respond to the multiplayer arguments with sales figures?  I guess you agree that the PSP is better for multiplayer?

Now on to the sales figures.  Had you actually read the article you posted you'd have caught this:

The figures are healthy by comparison with previous product launches in the space - the Nintendo DS, for example, shipped half a million units in North America before Christmas and took over a week to work through that initial shipment.

So, (sales) advantage PSP.

[adolescent]

Waccoon wrote:

adolscent:  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

I'm rather surprised that it took this long for any of the consoles to have any form of backwards compatibility.

I'd like to see when older titles will actually run better on new hardware.  This is still where all forms of PCs excell.  Software techniques on consoles are just not advanced enough these days.

I'm surprised also.  Nintendo up to this point seems to think that we have unlimited real estate under our TV sets to proudly display it's consoles.  In fact, the Gamecube manual has a section on how to hook up your GCN and N64 to the same TV.  :-)

The improvements would be ideal, but I'm not sure how far they can push it.  Maybe faster CD access (like PS2) and some polygon smoothing (like PS2) or AA.  

Anything more can actually hurt a game.  For example, and not a good one,  I recently got Half Life 2:CE that comes with Half Life:Source.  The old game runs great on the new engine but they didn't change the textures, shading, etc. so at 1280x1024 things look terrible because of the low resolution textures.  I can imagine this happening on a system that doesn't allow for updates.