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Offline adolescent

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #164 on: April 08, 2005, 05:42:19 PM »
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Waccoon wrote:
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adolscent:  They have never had a backwards compatible home console system, FACT!

I'm rather surprised that it took this long for any of the consoles to have any form of backwards compatibility.

I'd like to see when older titles will actually run better on new hardware.  This is still where all forms of PCs excell.  Software techniques on consoles are just not advanced enough these days.


I'm surprised also.  Nintendo up to this point seems to think that we have unlimited real estate under our TV sets to proudly display it's consoles.  In fact, the Gamecube manual has a section on how to hook up your GCN and N64 to the same TV.  :-)

The improvements would be ideal, but I'm not sure how far they can push it.  Maybe faster CD access (like PS2) and some polygon smoothing (like PS2) or AA.  

Anything more can actually hurt a game.  For example, and not a good one,  I recently got Half Life 2:CE that comes with Half Life:Source.  The old game runs great on the new engine but they didn't change the textures, shading, etc. so at 1280x1024 things look terrible because of the low resolution textures.  I can imagine this happening on a system that doesn't allow for updates.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2005, 09:26:55 PM »
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seer wrote:
Nintendo has announced this already.

eh... So because Nintendo announced the game it's gonna kick ass ?  :-?


Well there aren't too many 'Nintendo-made' games that don't kick ass for the genre they are inteded for.  Are you really going to argue about their quality?  Honestly, I used to be a Nintendo hater in my foolish youth but the company has won me over.  Unlike some companies (MS), they release a quality product be it hardware or software.
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2005, 09:34:12 PM »
Your stats are from the week before mine...
Also, they both ignore the 500,000+ Nintendo DS units sold in 4 days in Japan when it was released in December.

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?page=newsArchive&articleid=e4f9ec56-07c4-4698-bddb-9413c2eb4530&page=archive
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2005, 09:53:17 PM »
adolescent wrote:
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- Not all games will support "DS Download Play" single game card multiplayer, some games still need copies for each player.
- Of the games that do support it often they don't offer the complete game in multiplayer. (ie like GBA single pak multiplayer)
- PSP games like THUG and Twisted Metal DO support this (un-oficially)
- PSP works on wireless LAN/hotspot NOW (not in development, promised, etc.  NOW!)

Again, you ignore the facts.  Why respond to the multiplayer arguments with sales figures?  I guess you agree that the PSP is better for multiplayer?

Now on to the sales figures.  Had you actually read the article you posted you'd have caught this:

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The figures are healthy by comparison with previous product launches in the space - the Nintendo DS, for example, shipped half a million units in North America before Christmas and took over a week to work through that initial shipment.


Oh and Nintendo had to increase the initial shipment by 40% due to demand.  An extra 200,000 to become 700,000.

http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?page=newsArchive&articleid=b5dc37bb-77e8-400b-99c4-fe10493af1e7&page=archive

Yeah then they continue to sell over 1.3 million total by Dec 31st in the US alone.  Yeah, a real sales disappointment - NOT.  Now let's see, the PSP debuted last week and has only sold 500,000 out of a million available and pushed the Europe launch back so the US could have half a million PSP's sitting on the shelves...

On multiplayer - Nintendo had the 'download' feature from the start and Sony is only psuedo supporting it because of Nintendo.  Nintendo can't force 3rd parties to support that feature.

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So, (sales) advantage PSP.


LOL...LMAO...ROTFL!

ps,
Hey how's the battery life on those PSP's?  LOL again...
 

Offline seer

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2005, 09:57:03 PM »
Are you really going to argue about their quality?

No, but saying "Nintendo is making it, so it will be good" is not a good argument..

Honestly, I used to be a Nintendo hater in my foolish youth but the company has won me over.

I find this a bit BS.. I buy a product if it is good and does what I want it to do. Not because it's from Nintendo, Sega, MS , Atari.. Besides, companys change.. They get different Management, other employers.. Look at Westwood for a nice example on how a game studio that made the best RTS games and what they are now..

How anyone can hate a company is really beyond me.
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Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #169 on: April 08, 2005, 10:00:41 PM »
Quote

seer wrote:

How anyone can hate a company is really beyond me.


With business practices like this:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=1210

it's easy.
 

Offline DrBlue

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #170 on: April 08, 2005, 10:03:29 PM »
Returning to the origianl subject. I think that you are being a little harsh with regards to the idea that OS4 could or should be able to be run on a system other than the A1 hardware.

I agree that the GC idea would be impractical/virtually impossibl but at least consider the idea rather than dismissing it out of hand.
 

Offline seer

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #171 on: April 08, 2005, 10:04:27 PM »
With business practices like this:

As a consumer, I hardly care what 2 businesses do to each other..



/edit

Is it me or is this a bit similar to those red vs blue war BS ?
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Offline adonay

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #172 on: April 08, 2005, 10:16:58 PM »
im just wondering why do you guyz still .post in this subject is it realy more to get out of it just wondering?


adonay :-D
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Offline DrBlue

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #173 on: April 08, 2005, 10:19:21 PM »
I was just intrigued by the idea and thought i would say so.
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #174 on: April 08, 2005, 11:54:40 PM »
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adonay wrote:
im just wondering why do you guyz still .post in this subject is it realy more to get out of it just wondering?


adonay :-D


Gee, maybe a bunch of people will come along, read the entire thread and decide "hey, this could be a great way to get Amiga into a mass market device".  Afterall, Amiga is a software company now.  Who cares what the underlying hardware really is.  I'm touting the Gamecube and Revolution because I feel
#1 it would require the least amount of development time to do so and
#2 I don't want to throw money at MS to run on their hardware.  MS hardware also breaks rule #1
#3 The A1 is under-powered and over-priced.  A GC system can be had for peanuts and has comparable cpu power.

As for not Apple/Mac, they are a closed system.
As for not Sony PS2/3, it breaks my reason #1

I believe OS4 with some bundled software (some Hyperion games, a browser, email client and maybe a retro pak) could be an interesting piece of software on a console.

@DrBlue:
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Returning to the origianl subject. I think that you are being a little harsh with regards to the idea that OS4 could or should be able to be run on a system other than the A1 hardware.


Wasn't OS4 supposed to be ported to Cyberstorm'd Amigas?  So obviously it was written with portability to other platforms in mind.  I remember reading about the HAL and how proud of it Hyperion was.  I think there are some underlying issues as to why we don't already have OS4 in our hands that have not been made public.  I wouldn't be surprised if all is not well between Hyperion and Eyetech.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/602/602093p1.html
Double dividends!  Damn, I should have bought stock years ago!
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #175 on: April 09, 2005, 01:19:07 AM »
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lou_dias wrote:
On multiplayer - Nintendo had the 'download' feature from the start and Sony is only psuedo supporting it because of Nintendo.  Nintendo can't force 3rd parties to support that feature.


Force 3rd parties?  Nintendo doesn't even use it in all of their games.

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So, (sales) advantage PSP.


LOL...LMAO...ROTFL!

ps,
Hey how's the battery life on those PSP's?  LOL again...


What does that have to do with sales?  I'm trying to figure out whether you are crazy, or have AADD.  Instead of answering to something you keep changing the topic.  

But, to try to keep up with your attention defecit, the battery life is just fine, for what the PSP can do.  I watched Spiderman on UMD without recharging.  I haven't really tried playing 6 hours straight to test the battery life during gameplay but so far it's fine.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline adonay

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #176 on: April 09, 2005, 02:23:23 AM »
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Gee, maybe a bunch of people will come along, read the entire thread and decide "hey, this could be a great way to get Amiga into a mass market device". Afterall, Amiga is a software company now. Who cares what the underlying hardware really is. I'm touting the Gamecube and Revolution because I feel
'

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Wasn't OS4 supposed to be ported to Cyberstorm'd Amigas? So obviously it was written with portability to other platforms in mind. I remember reading about the HAL and how proud of it Hyperion was. I think there are some underlying issues as to why we don't already have OS4 in our hands that have not been made public. I wouldn't be surprised if all is not well between Hyperion and Eyetech.


it has been done and they are still doing it. there are betaz out there running on classic amigas but it was coded early from the start and is not identical to a1 os4 couse of different hardware.so here is my question why make os4 that still is at beta stage on a whole new platfor that would need rework.just think how long hyperion have worked on os4 they wont make it again for something that wont last. Yes i know GC has ppc and radeon but its more to it than that even the most stupid of my frinds know that a car is a car and a scoter is a scoter but they allso know that not all cars the same thing and they cant use parts from a tuned lada(your case nintendo) on a toyta supra even if they both have four weels you cant fit the lada weels on a toyota without modifications..

1#why would you like to port os for something like a dieing platfor like an nintendo that would only be usefull when the mashine was new come to think about it you dont need a nintendo with os maybe for webbrowse. and if you want loads of storage space for media  hmm witch the nintendo does not have you have a problem..
2# if i want os4 i want DVD playback And a propper cd rom drive wich you dont get with your silly nintendo thing also the os 4 is desgned for a1 boards i feel you would have to make some win / CE© lookalike os made cheap dirt ..
3# as stated in 1 the GC is off market in maximum 2 years from now and so is people^s interest for the platform they will get playstation3..
4#you had to hack the system so badly upp i dont se why you would for an nintendo.

my advice to you get an a1 micro quit nagging about something that never will be..Sure the A1 seems expensive but reamember what people payed for their BPPC\CPPC cards in 96 and they dident complain after a coupple off monts use. i bet annyone whith the interest can get the money for an a1..It might be hard. but if you dont try I think your not interested at all in the new amiga Os4 .

Me for one would never buy Os for an gameconsole un less it were thefuture and i would not get a beta for my buggless gamesystem ever    :lol:
its quite silly not to think about all the modding with CF cards(not reliable) all hacks and writing drivers ..kernel bla bla bla for something that would be a so expensive uppgrade nobody would finance it ever :roflmao:


btw good luck on getting support in this mather  :lol:

adonay :-D
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Offline Waccoon

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #177 on: April 09, 2005, 06:37:51 AM »
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Every opinion I've had, I've given my reasoning behind it. I've even referenced articles when possible.

You never did give the name of that single, inefficient bus in the Wintel PC.  Can you provide a reference for that?

I've asked you this multiple times.  If you say nothing else, please answer this.

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If consoles are just as powerful as PCs, as you contantly uphold, then there should be no re-inventing of the wheel.
So Nintendo should be using an original NES to create Gamecube software then?

What?

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You'll know more at E3.

Which is why you're going to keep wetting your pants and telling us all about these machines before E3.

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Since Revolution will use the same API as the GC, any work that could have been done on the GC port of AOS4 could have simply carried-on and continued for Revolution with less of the complaints about hardware capabilities

I believe it's been established that OS architecture is more complex than that.  But, you're not listening, anyway.

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and you'd really have a system with modern hardware for way less than $1000.

Has it occured to you why AmigaOne is so expensive?  It is more sophiticated than Gamecube, but mostly it's becuase the guys in charge want it to cost a lot of money.  This has been established, too, but you're not listening.

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The improvements would be ideal, but I'm not sure how far they can push it. Maybe faster CD access (like PS2) and some polygon smoothing (like PS2) or AA.

You can do a lot if your architecture is sound.  It never ceases to amaze me how ePSXe absolutely blows away the compatibility mode supported by the PS2.  You haven't seen real power until you've seen a Playstation game running in 1280x1024 in 32-bit color with full AA and modern texture filtering.  All that, and it runs without a hickup, too.

Maybe they figured they shouldn't make old games run too much better on the new systems so people would buy new games (which is bologna.  People buy new machines to play new games, not old ones).

It's also likely that Sony ignored the very thing that made PSX popular and made PS2 difficult to program on purpose.  Maybe the fear of easy emulation was a factor, too.  Who knows what goes on in the minds of their marketting department.

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Well there aren't too many 'Nintendo-made' games that don't kick ass for the genre they are inteded for.

Not according to the demos I've played in the store.  It's a matter of taste.  Lots of people have also expressed their enormous disappointment with the new Starfox game on the fansites to which I'm subscribed.  I don't own a Gamecube (yet) but I've certainly seen it in action.

I have a PS2, and I can assure you that there are plenty of titles directly published by Sony that kick ass.  What does that have to do with Amiga?

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Your stats are from the week before mine...

Wait... you follow things by the week?

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Yeah then they continue to sell over 1.3 million total by Dec 31st in the US alone. Yeah, a real sales disappointment - NOT.

Didn't SEGA sell 5 million Saturns in Japan, and that was considered a miserable failure?

Kinda makes you feel better about a few thousand Amigas, doesn't it?  Especially since Hyperion wanted it that way.

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How anyone can hate a company is really beyond me.

Ditto.

Dare I ask what Lou thinks about XNA?  (Before you answer, keep in mind E3 hasn't happened, yet)  :-)

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From the article about Microsoft vs nVidia:  "Perhaps most telling of all is the story we've heard from many, many Xbox developers over the past few months - that low-level documentation for the NV2X chipset in the Xbox is not being made available to them, because NVIDIA refuses to release it to Microsoft developer support. The explanation for this offered by developers we spoke to is that NVIDIA is afraid that additional information handed to Microsoft now would be passed straight on to ATI, who would use it to emulate the NV2X in their Xbox 2 chipset."

This sounds pretty typical.  When you run with the big dogs, you'll not likely find much kindness from any company.

It's a bit ironic that Amigans hate Microsoft so much, given all the bulls**t Commodore pulled.  I don't like Microsoft, either, but you have to admit they are the easy whipping boy of the industry.

Consider how many system crashes are due to bad drivers and not Windows.  I just updated my ATI drivers and on top of all the garbase like context menus I don't want, Java is now broken and many GUI components are showing up as blank.  I'm really, really upset with ATI right now.  Microsoft isn't alone when it comes to pulling lots of idiotic stunts that screw end-users.

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I agree that the GC idea would be impractical/virtually impossibl but at least consider the idea rather than dismissing it out of hand.

The real problem is that it would require Nintendo's blessing, and might even require hardware modifications.  Why Nintendo would be interested in AmigaOS when they can make a mod of Linux on the cheap is beyond me.

Hell, I was kind of hoping Amiga would do something like Apple and write a new Workbench to run on a modified BSD/Linux, with some new stuff thrown in.  OS4 as a whole, on any hardware, is pretty much a lost cause, and suggesting a stripped, purpose-built console with no binary compatibility with "real" Amigas (and in some cases, PPC), could run OS4 without any form of emulation is downright silly.  Ask anyone who works on OSes for a living.

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#1 it would require the least amount of development time to do so and
#2 I don't want to throw money at MS to run on their hardware. MS hardware also breaks rule #1
#3 The A1 is under-powered and over-priced. A GC system can be had for peanuts and has comparable cpu power.

As for not Apple/Mac, they are a closed system.
As for not Sony PS2/3, it breaks my reason #1

#1 - Not using console hardware would take the least time and money, and have lots more posibilites.  Even if Nintendo's APIs were to allow a multitasking memory protected OS, you'd be programming for Nintendo's tools and not the hardware, so portability is near impossible.
#2 - And you yell at other people as being Nintendo haters?  Do you expect everyone to herald your anti-MS antics just because this is an Amiga forum?
#3 - Blame Hyperion for that, not the hardware itself.  AmigaOne is a horrible mis-match on all levels, and Hyperion had a lot of time to make that decision.  Even if Gamecube could run OS4, it's obvious the powers in charge don't want anything even close to that.

You don't like closed systems and want to use consoles?  WTF?  PCs are built on the most open hardware standards in the world -- and they are nowhere near as expensive as AmigaOne.

I can understand you don't like PS2 because it just sucks.  Really.  But, your verdict on PS3 is very pre-mature.  I suppose you've actually used the hardware?

Also, I'm disappointed you're only looking at console hardware.  Don't you think PC vendors would love to use cheap hardware, too?  Why don't they?  There's no law that a PC (open standards, not Wintel), must run Windows.  Why is it so tough to make alternative systems?  Do you think there might be, oh... technical reasons for it?  Why are Linux PPC boards intended for servers built like PCs instead of game consoles if all they do is direct Internet traffic and run architecture independent scripting languages and databases?

Could it possibly be that the robustness of the OS required might actually influence hardware design?  Say t'ain't so!

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I believe OS4 with some bundled software (some Hyperion games, a browser, email client and maybe a retro pak) could be an interesting piece of software on a console.

OS4 isn't modern enough to run a real browser, and Hyperion specializes in porting old games, not making new ones.

Imagine Amiga Anywhere games on Gamecube.  That'd be good for a laugh.  I wonder what Nintendo Power would say about that.  :-)

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Wasn't OS4 supposed to be ported to Cyberstorm'd Amigas? So obviously it was written with portability to other platforms in mind.

Lots of things are/were planned for OS4.  What matters is what's released.

Wasn't Amiga supposed to make a new OS altogether that would work anywhere?

While we're at it, why not throw around more speculation about the Dragon board, too?

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adonay:  its quite silly not to think about all the modding with CF cards(not reliable) all hacks and writing drivers ..kernel bla bla bla for something that would be a so expensive uppgrade nobody would finance it ever

I don't think the Gamecube's hardware supports the low-level architecture for a decent OS, but even if it did, so many parts would have to be written from scratch that it would cost millions just to get it up and running.

Of course, we could always take a few years and depend on reverse-engineering and volunteers to get things done, like with gc-Linux, which can't do anything useful.  :-)
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #178 on: April 09, 2005, 10:42:39 AM »
seer wrote:

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How anyone can hate a company is really beyond me.


I think exposes a lack of deeper thinking. ;0)

by lou_dias:

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With business practices like this:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=dev&aid=1210

it's easy.


Maybe you should think about the society that breeds individuals that partake in these sorts of business practices???
 

Offline Louis DiasTopic starter

Re: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP
« Reply #179 from previous page: April 10, 2005, 01:20:38 AM »
Quote

Waccoon wrote:

You never did give the name of that single, inefficient bus in the Wintel PC.  Can you provide a reference for that?

I've asked you this multiple times.  If you say nothing else, please answer this.


My answer is that the question is pointless.

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You'll know more at E3.

Which is why you're going to keep wetting your pants and telling us all about these machines before E3.


Grow up.


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Since Revolution will use the same API as the GC, any work that could have been done on the GC port of AOS4 could have simply carried-on and continued for Revolution with less of the complaints about hardware capabilities

I believe it's been established that OS architecture is more complex than that.  But, you're not listening, anyway.


http://www.metrowerks.com/MW/Develop/Games/GC/Default.htm
Looking at that page, it clearly states:
• NINTENDO GAMECUBE OS was built with CodeWarrior tools, so your code will integrate seamlessly, saving valuable development time

So ofcourse you will make some rudimentary arguement (as always) that this doesn't mean it can run any other OS...

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and you'd really have a system with modern hardware for way less than $1000.

Has it occured to you why AmigaOne is so expensive?  It is more sophiticated than Gamecube, but mostly it's becuase the guys in charge want it to cost a lot of money.  This has been established, too, but you're not listening.


other than having a PPC socket instead of an Athlon or Pentium cpu socket, this board offers technology that is 5 years old.  The A1 board would cost $30 if it was an IBM-compatible motherboard.  A PPC cpu socket doesn't justify the price difference.  And the bundled video card (Radeon 7000) is also 5 or 6 years old.

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You can do a lot if your architecture is sound.  It never ceases to amaze me how ePSXe absolutely blows away the compatibility mode supported by the PS2.  You haven't seen real power until you've seen a Playstation game running in 1280x1024 in 32-bit color with full AA and modern texture filtering.  All that, and it runs without a hickup, too.


Yeah, I was running Tekken 3 at 1600x1200x32 fast as hell with a Radeon 7500 and an Athlon 900 using !Bleem.  I have used ePSXe now (!Bleem doesn't support Win2k) and it's alot slower.  I run an Athlon 2400+ with Radeon All-In-Wonder 8500DV.

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Well there aren't too many 'Nintendo-made' games that don't kick ass for the genre they are inteded for.

Not according to the demos I've played in the store.  It's a matter of taste.  Lots of people have also expressed their enormous disappointment with the new Starfox game on the fansites to which I'm subscribed.  I don't own a Gamecube (yet) but I've certainly seen it in action.


Why would you subscribe to a fansite of a game you don't own for a system you don't own?

Well, the big complaint about Star Fox Assault that I've seen on the fan sites is that Namco didn't include LAN play even though it was originally supposed to include it.  Other than that, people loved the return of the flying missions but felt the ground combat was thrown in to maintain some consistency with Star Fox Adventures.  I've seen the demo and the game looks hot.  I'll get it eventually.  I just beat Resident Evil 4.  You'd do no wrong to buy a used GC just for RE4.

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Didn't SEGA sell 5 million Saturns in Japan, and that was considered a miserable failure?

Kinda makes you feel better about a few thousand Amigas, doesn't it?  Especially since Hyperion wanted it that way.


There's quite a difference between 'million' and 'thousand'.  And why would a company want to limit it's own sales?

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Dare I ask what Lou thinks about XNA?  (Before you answer, keep in mind E3 hasn't happened, yet)  :-)


XNA - what took so damn long.  Either way it's just a fancy name for a common set of tools.

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I just updated my ATI drivers and on top of all the garbase like context menus I don't want, Java is now broken and many GUI components are showing up as blank.  I'm really, really upset with ATI right now.  Microsoft isn't alone when it comes to pulling lots of idiotic stunts that screw end-users.


ATI driver updates are always touchy.  Great hardware though.  The best way is to completely uninstall the old drivers then start new.

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#3 - Blame Hyperion for that, not the hardware itself.  AmigaOne is a horrible mis-match on all levels, and Hyperion had a lot of time to make that decision.  Even if Gamecube could run OS4, it's obvious the powers in charge don't want anything even close to that.


Actually I blame Eyetech.  Too bad Hyperion is contractually locked in.

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I can understand you don't like PS2 because it just sucks.  Really.  But, your verdict on PS3 is very pre-mature.  I suppose you've actually used the hardware?


Well if you say one PPC cpu isn't binary compatible with another PPC cpu, Cell certainly isn't going to be.  And like I said, development carries over from GC to Revolution.  I don't believe PS3 will ressemble PS2 in any way.

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Also, I'm disappointed you're only looking at console hardware.  Don't you think PC vendors would love to use cheap hardware, too?  Why don't they?  There's no law that a PC (open standards, not Wintel), must run Windows.  Why is it so tough to make alternative systems?  Do you think there might be, oh... technical reasons for it?  Why are Linux PPC boards intended for servers built like PCs instead of game consoles if all they do is direct Internet traffic and run architecture independent scripting languages and databases?


People want a PPC Amiga running OS 4.  I already own a PPC machine (Gamecube) and don't feel like spending money on the A1 for the reasons I've already stated.  Remember the topic: potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP

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OS4 isn't modern enough to run a real browser, and Hyperion specializes in porting old games, not making new ones.


Don't tell that to the IBrowse users.  I can show you server log files of IBrowse users running OS4 connecting to a site I maintain (www.dsbuzz.com) having hit my site (as well as MorphOS).  Also, I know they have done ports.  Nothing is stopping them from releasing OS4 versions of what they've already done.  Like I said - retro-pak.

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Imagine Amiga Anywhere games on Gamecube.  That'd be good for a laugh.  I wonder what Nintendo Power would say about that.  :-)


The whole point of Amiga Anywhere is portability.  Amiga Anywhere would probably do just fine on a DS or GBA.

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so many parts would have to be written from scratch that it would cost millions just to get it up and running


Considering OS4 was written from scratch..for the A1 which was almost designed from scratch...  Some how I feel you are overestimating just a bit...  Oh and please name the OS4 specific parts that need to be rewritten from scratch since you seem to be the resident expert on porting it.