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Offline x56h34

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #59 from previous page: August 09, 2004, 05:45:17 PM »
@tjaoz:

Well, you are from Poland. You are from Krakow. You show up only in Elbox related threads. You badmouth everything that is competing with Elbox's products. By all means you stink of Elbox stench. I'm sorry. You may not work for them, but you are highly annoying and I feel like throwing up every time I see your post.
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2004, 06:43:35 PM »
Quote
Is there the slightest risk that this thread might get back on topic this year?


As long as Ratty is doing his FUD war and trolling here... I think no, unfortunately.

You know, talking about facts is not his issue. Just look at his answers: he ignores all facts, all questions and is repeating his assumptions and rumours. And as he is running out of arguments he is returning to the Poseidon key issue which is *completely* off topic here.
It is sad to see such things here, but obviously one has to live with him.

Michael
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #61 on: August 09, 2004, 07:01:05 PM »
Quote

mboehmer_e3b wrote:
As long as Ratty is doing his FUD war and trolling here... I think no, unfortunately.

You know, talking about facts is not his issue. Just look at his answers: he ignores all facts, all questions and is repeating his assumptions and rumours. And as he is running out of arguments he is returning to the Poseidon key issue which is *completely* off topic here.
It is sad to see such things here, but obviously one has to live with him.


This is completely true. In ever single news posting or major thread related to the Prometheus Rat(aka Tjoaz) will show up and spread untrue information. It's not limited to Prometheus though, it's any product that competes with an Elbox product. As others have mentioned, the only time he posts to Amiga.org, ANN, AW.net or anywhere else is to slander competing products. Luckily many are seeing him for what he is.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2004, 07:02:37 PM »
Well, so some more feed for the troll. Or better, some more facts to ignore for him... but as he was so kind to give a link to the datasheet which is falsifying his arguments (I love this word, even if its from Elbox :)

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These chips work in the 16-bit mode then. In this mode MX29F400 sectors need 4k, 8k, 16k or 32k writes , but never 64k as Michael assumed.


In 16bit mode you get to a doubled worst case rate of 360miliByte. Fine.
Unfortunately only the data strobe line /DS3 is connected  to the eFlash4000, so you will have to write both FlashROM chips everytime (the /DS1 which would be needed to distinguish between word and long word accesses, i.e. between writing the one or the other FlashROM).
Almost all sectors (7 of 8) are 64kB sized, so the 8kB, 16kB and 32kB sectors are not really relevant.

For those technically interested: take a look at Dave Haynies Zorro III spec. You can find pinouts of the Zorro III connector there to check for yourself, namely /BERR and /DS1 lines.

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As you properly noted, he completely forgot that data caching may be used in such situations.


Using data caching is possible, as I also stated, but in a situation like the Amiga system, where no memory protection is available, increasing the sync times between RAM to FlashROM transfers will increase speed of the disk, but also the danger of inconsistencies between RAM and FlashROM. And with decreasing this sync time you end up in my calculation.

If you want to experience what I mean: just write a bunch of data to your system hard disk and reset while writing. You may do such jokes with a journaling file system, but not conventional ones.

Michael
 

Offline Doobrey

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2004, 04:17:32 AM »
Quote

tjaoz wrote:
How many address lines there are in the clock port is of no relevance. There is not a single address line in the clock port which would not be in the expansion port. Their numbers do not sum up, as they are exactly the same address lines.


Hi tjaoz, seeing as you`re struggling, here`s a clue..
The Highway has a firmware update before putting the Romulus on it..
 
Anyway, since the Highway isn`t made anymore and it`s sucessor the Algor doesn`t have a clockport,your arguements are like a broken pencil...pointless.
 
On schedule, and suing
 

Offline platon42

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2004, 11:04:59 AM »
Actually, I didn't want to feed the troll, but Rats seem to find their "food" anyway.

Quote

tjaoz wrote:
It is you [...]


Welcome to the kindergarden. "No!!! It's you!" as usually.

Quote

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So? Full random *read only* access is worth nothing.

This is what you want others to believe. You know why?  Because random read access in E3B cards is so messed up that it is unusable.


Liar.

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It is not true.


It is. Liar.

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To make this speed possible, even in the quoted by you 4KB window range, at least 12 Amiga address lines should be connected to the Flash. This is not the fact!


It is. Liar.

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Just watch the Algor board and see connection of address lines. Well, it is enough to read the description of the connector, to which Romulus is connected. This connector has only 5 Amiga address lines connected!


You have no idea. You're trying to tell Michael, who built the hardware and me, who wrote the software how the thing works? And you are talking about mental disorders? :laughing:

[Rest of stupidity skipped]

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Algor pro IS vapourware, according to your own vapourware definition. Until today Algor pro is not available.


For the first eFlash 4000, Elbox took multiple months to actually deliver it -- even after they claimed, it would be available. Is there any customer of the eFlash 4000 2MB yet? I wonder.

The shipment Algor PRO boards has been delayed due to Michael going into hospital, which was officially announced right after this was clear. Elbox never ever posts any delays, it just silently doesn't deliver.

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The quality of hardware of the Flash part of the Algor/Romulus cards is beaten by the Eflash 4000 hardware MANY times.


Argument and proof?

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1. eFlash 4000 is a fast and clean design, while Algor implementation of the Flash memory is a hard hardware hack.


Why? Proof? Zero points. Anyone looking at the eFlash with some knowledge of hardware design will immediately notice that it is not a clean design at all. No need to repeat the facts Michael has given.

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2. eFlash is equipped with hardware protection against unwanted reprogramming, which is very important because Flash memories have limited reprogramming cycles amount.


FlashRoms cannot be written directly, but need a special programming cycle, which cannot be triggered by accident. Hence, user interaction is necessary. Zero points.

Quote

When you have no hardware write protection (Algor and Romulus case) of the Flash memory you are always exposed to destroying your Flash memory by a malicious virus before you find out that some software is rewriting it again and again.


Your point is void. Each flashrom has to be written using a special vendor specific way. A virus would have to know exactly how to write itself into the flashrom for each different card. Also, just overwriting a block of the flashrom would not trigger it automatically. In case of the Algor/Highway, a checksum also has to be calculated (I'm not aware the eFlash has this). This makes it very hard to execute alien code, written into the flashrom accidentially or by malicious modification. And who would write such a special virus? (From Elbox' track record, I'd say, that with their reverse-engineering and trojan coding experience, this should be no problem for them). Zero points.

I have read in the review in the mag, that the eFlash can only be flashed with the hardware protection jumper disabled, but it will not execute the contents of the flashrom then -- now this pretty user unfriendly, if you only want to make quick tests.

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3. eFlash 4000 uses hi-quality Flash memories, which can be programmed 100,000 times, not only 10,000 times like memories in Algor/Romulus.


The eFlash uses recycled and obsolete MACH chips that would start failing far before the flashroms reach their theoretical guaranteed flash times. These are minimum guaranteed times. Just calculate how many years you have to do constant flashing, until the *guaranteed* amount of cycles is reached? Zero points again.

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I do not have to comment that the Algor's edge connector is not gold-plated, which in itself eliminates that product in the very beginning.


Why? Because before the connectors start wearing off (in 10 years?), the rest of the machine has fallen apart?
 
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As regards your "fast" USB controller", it's a bit exaggeration. Algor is an old-fashioned obsolete USB 1.1 standard controller.


Getting off-topic again, huh? It reaches the same and faster transfer rates than the Spider with USB1.1 devices. 'Nuff said.

As a summary: All of your so-called "arguments" do not hold. Do cannot tell anything against my arguments that the software provided with the eFlash is a piece of sh*t. You cannot give any good reason, why one should favour a Zorro III board to a Zorro II board. Your hypothetical fast flashdisk is, well, hypothetical (and would be of no practical use on 1MB/2MB boards).

Better luck next time :laughing:
--
Regards, Chris Hodges )-> http://www.platon42.de <-(
hackerkey://v4sw7CJS$hw6/7ln6pr7+8AOP$ck0ma8u2LMw1/4Xm5l3i5TJCOTextPad/e7t2BDMNb7GHLen5a34s5IMr1g3/5ACM
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2004, 11:30:38 AM »
Gentlemen, can we please exercise some restrain?

This bickering is not making either side look very good to the average buyer.

@tjaoz

I have to admit, whatever your agenda is, in the time I have been a member here I have yet to see you express an opinion on anything in the fora that isn't directly slamming a product that is in competition with an Elbox one.

This does not do much for your credibility, nor does arguing with the designers of a rival product over their implementation - you simply cannot know more about their product than they do. Quite why you take this approach is beyond me.

Perhaps both sides can simply explain the virtues of their product without mentioning their competition?
int p; // A
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2004, 12:10:49 PM »
Quote
Perhaps both sides can simply explain the virtues of their product without mentioning their competition?


That would be nice, unfortunately 1 party which I will not mention will not allow this. It would be unwise for companies to let a competitor's slander and lies go unchallenged.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2004, 04:33:15 PM »
Back on topic.  I just ordered a Kickflash from Vesalia.  I can give a mini-review when it gets here if the OP wishes.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline X-ray

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2004, 04:37:55 PM »
Yes, Adolescent, I wanna know how it goes.
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2004, 02:29:58 PM »
Hm. Anyone seen Ratty lately? Did he run out of arguments, or has he been hit by a double dose of reality?  :lol:

Michael
 

Offline tjaoz

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2004, 03:44:41 PM »
 @Karlos

Quote
I have to admit, whatever your agenda is, in the time I have been a member here I have yet to see you express an opinion on anything in the fora that isn't directly slamming a product that is in competition with an Elbox one.

This does not do much for your credibility, nor does arguing with the designers of a rival product over their implementation - you simply cannot know more about their product than they do. Quite why you take this approach is beyond me.

Perhaps both sides can simply explain the virtues of their product without mentioning their competition?


Hello Karlos,

Could you please make an extra effort and view this thread from its beginning and you will see who is attacking whom here and who bashes competitive products.

I only wrote a reply to JohnFante that if he had an A4000 (it means an Amiga with the Zorro III slots), he should rather purchase a Flash card in Zorro III and not Zorro II standard. Is it any attack against anybody for you?

Now you see what Hodges wrote to my post. Note the personally offensive and aggressive mood of Hodges comment. See how this boy speaks about products of another company. See his posts. With his aggressive posts, Hodges shows only that his hatred of Elbox has become a psycho illness.

As regards a 'rival product', I am not a producer but a USER of many Elbox products. I know from my experience how Elbox cares about the highest quality of these products, how they care about continuous updating of their software and how fast they respond to my emails sent to their support.

If you want to find people speaking here about 'rival product' check posts of Hodges and Boehmer. They ARE producers of Algor and Romulus. Algor/Romulus was not the topic of this thread BTW.

As regards my discussions about technical details of some products, I do not say I know them better than their designers. Some technical details are clearly visible even without any access to the product documentation. Their designers are not always willing to show these details, which are not comfortable for them. Please note that Michael Boehmer so far has not written how Flash memory addressing is executed in his product (method 1., method 2. or mix of 1. and 2.), and the actual read speed of this device HIGHLY depends on it.

As concerns always mentioning the competition products: It is the E3B habit, not Elbox. Below is a cite showing how Elbox responses to the Boehmer attacks on Elbox products on the Highway ML:
"My proposal for you is thus: instead of speculating about our company and our hardware in this list, would you please concentrate on your own products and support for them. A mailing list like this one is not a place for disputes between companies."

Boehmer and Hodges often publicly attack Elbox and Elbox products. And they always cry that they do it only because they are attacked by Elbox, which is not the case. In all these discussions suddenly a few people appear (e.g. Kronos here), which are willing to bash Elbox. Usually they even do not know what is the thread subject.


@Redrumloa

If you use Amiga.org, and especially the "Amiga on eBay" section, as a place for advertising products, which you distribute, you should be honest in giving their features. It is not fair when you behave like a person who does not know his trade goods and makes up fiction features to these products. You did it in the "3 more products added Catweasel etc" parallel thread, writing that Buddha "probably" supports PIO-3 or PIO-4, which is not true. In earlier discussions you spoke about features of the Prometheus cards, which are not available in the real world. Only in such cases I take note of the facts. Instead of feeling offended, you should rather thank me for helping you being reliable for your customers.


Sorry, no more responses today.
I'm going to see the match Wisla Krakow - Real Madrid. :-)

Jacek
 

Offline x56h34

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2004, 03:52:41 PM »
Quote

Sorry, no more responses today.
I'm going to see the match Wisla Krakow - Real Madrid.


Don't forget to update the Elbox site before you leave. May I suggest: "Free shipping to all Elbox products in our online store if Wisla wins!". :lol:
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2004, 03:56:38 PM »
Quote
writing that Buddha "probably" supports PIO-3 or PIO-4, which is not true.


And your point? The Buddha has settings for said modes. Your arguement was regarding speed which has nothing to do with the question. What's funny is people could use this same argument against several of your favorite products from a certain company that also happens to be in Krakow.

You must be projecting yourself onto others. :lol:
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2004, 04:35:43 PM »
Quote

tjaoz wrote:
 @Karlos

Quote
I have to admit, whatever your agenda is, in the time I have been a member here I have yet to see you express an opinion on anything in the fora that isn't directly slamming a product that is in competition with an Elbox one.

This does not do much for your credibility, nor does arguing with the designers of a rival product over their implementation - you simply cannot know more about their product than they do. Quite why you take this approach is beyond me.

Perhaps both sides can simply explain the virtues of their product without mentioning their competition?


Hello Karlos,

Could you please make an extra effort and view this thread from its beginning and you will see who is attacking whom here and who bashes competitive products.


If I may offer an opinion - the point Karlos makes is a good one. Look at most posters on this site - they ask questions when they need help with hardware, software etc, and answer questions and help other people with such problems; many, but not all, of them post in the Coffee House forums about politics, humour, religion etc.

Go to the front page and do a search for tjaoz
It will list all the threads where tjaoz is mentioned. Some of them you haven't posted in, but look at the ones you have. [these are ALL the posts by you returned by that search]

"Kickflash experiences"

"Subway USB Availability?"

"This Amiga 4000D has a secret:-D"  [thread about Prometheus]

"Mediator vs Prometheus"

"How quick are you? 6 Prometheus for $139 each on eBay."

"PCI for genuine 4000T"

"A mail from Elbox saying that they will make sure that the Algor card won't"

"just saw the worrying Poseidon news"

"Mysterious Hardware?!" [You plug Elbox in this thread]

"Shouldn't mem transfers for Mediators (orother brands) for A4000 be faster the equivalent A1200's??"

"Delphina Flipper...should i or?" [you suggest that lempkee should buy a Terratec soundcard instead]

"Why do I have to buy PoseidonUSB v2.x for Spider II from ELBOX?"

"Elbox's Spider II and Amithlon - caveat"



So there you go - Karlos was right. Have you EVER helped another user with their problems, other than suggesting they buy Elbox? Have you ever posted any interesting news? Have you ever talked about software or games? Ever talked about your favourite game or application, perhaps? Ever discussed  operating systems, next-gen Amiga solutions? Maybe even posted your views on the war in Iraq or whatever in the Coffee House? NO!

Have you EVER EVER EVER posted anything on this site which isn't plugging Elbox and slagging everything else?
- Well the answer to that question is no. It appeared to me and probably a few other users that this was the case - but I put it to you that by actually reading your past posts it is quickly confirmed.


By mentioning football, in your last post, you have set a precedent. Feeling a little off-colour?
I like Amigas
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: Kickflash experiences
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2004, 05:57:40 PM »
Quote

tjaoz wrote:

Hello Karlos,

Could you please make an extra effort and view this thread from its beginning...


Who said I was specifically talking about this thread? As has been demonstrated, you crop up in any thread that has a possible elbox plug opportunity.

Quote

Now you see what Hodges wrote to my post. Note the personally offensive and aggressive mood of Hodges comment. See how this boy speaks about products of another company. See his posts. With his aggressive posts, Hodges shows only that his hatred of Elbox has become a psycho illness.


I also already pointed out that in the personal attack sense, youre as bad as each other once you both get going. Like "please miss, he started it..." schoolkids. Frickin grow up already.

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As regards a 'rival product', I am not a producer but a USER of many Elbox products. I know from my experience how Elbox cares about the highest quality of these products, how they care about continuous updating of their software and how fast they respond to my emails sent to their support.


I never said you worked for elbox. I said you never fail to promote them and rubbish the competition at any given opportunity. Again, viewing your post history demonstrates this.

Quote
If you want to find people speaking here about 'rival product' check posts of Hodges and Boehmer. They ARE producers of Algor and Romulus. Algor/Romulus was not the topic of this thread BTW.


And at no point anywhere in this thread did you inferr their design was inferior to elbox's, right? :lol:

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As regards my discussions about technical details of some products, I do not say I know them better than their designers...


Let actual testing confirm this, rather than simply assuming one is better than the other for whatever reason. Throwing techical info around and playing poker with numbers demonstrates absolutely nothing.

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Boehmer and Hodges often publicly attack Elbox and Elbox products. And they always cry that they do it only because they are attacked by Elbox, which is not the case.


Unless you do start working for them :lol: ;-)


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Sorry, no more responses today.
I'm going to see the match Wisla Krakow - Real Madrid. :-)


Good! It's reassuring to know you have other interests. Enjoy!
int p; // A