Latest G4's running at 1.43Hhz

[Hammer]

strobe wrote:
If Apple tries to compete with Windows they're dead.

Have Apple ever tried to enter X86 home world?

Microsoft mostly draws its strength from the massive clone X86 market. Producing a high-powered chip doesn’t guarantee the destruction of X86 (refer to the higher clocked Alpha AXP@700Mhz during middle 90s as example).  

It’s nice to have a strong home world. Note why MS has labeled X86 Linux as a threat…

People buy Macs because Apple works on the human<->computer bottleneck. Most of the time the CPU is waiting for the human, not the other way around. This was true when CPUs were 8mhz, nevermind 1Ghz.

Depending on the application.

[AmigaMac]

If Apple tries to compete with Windows they're dead.

Well Strobe is correct, Apple would never be able to successfully penetrate the x86 market much less compete with Microsoft head on... their strategy with PPC is still a better choice!  By the time they clock Power Macs to near 1.8 GHz, IBM's PPC 970 will already be in production and Apple will shift to the 32/64bit transition with the next major release of OS X!

[Waccoon]

Surprise, surprise.  Amiga didn't want X86, they wanted PowerPC... and this is what happened.  Here people are drooling over 1.4 Ghz PowerPC chips that will never become available to the Amiga community.  That's what you get when you use proprietary hardware.

I use lots of proprietary hardware at my job, and it's very frustrating knowing that an ATA133 card you can get for $25 will outperform the old striped RAID SCSI controller your vendor gave you in that $10,000 workstation (several years ago).  I'd love to just put together a new system, but I can't because the software is hard coded for the hardware.  Custom firmware is good.  Proprietary hardware sucks.

As for the Apple overclocking issue (from Page 1), I thought one of the things people were complaining about was the option for haveing a cool-running, very reliable system, as opposed to those "haphazard" X86 systems built to last 6 months.  Sure, let's put a copper HSF on the PowerPC and overclock it until it explodes, and MAYBE it will be half the CPU the AMD Barton will be next month...

...but, hey, it's all OK 'cause it's under warantee!  It's not like your data is actually, y'know... IMPORTANT.

Sorry I'm so bitchy tonight, but I've just had enough of the AmigaOne.  It's a nice upgrade for old PPC Amiga users, but Amiga's future won't have anything to do with PowerPC and Amiga Inc. knows that all too well.  It's just too damned expensive.

[Waccoon]

Strobe:  If Apple tries to compete with Windows they're dead.

For the last time... X86 IS NOT WINDOWS!!!

Mac hardware is identical to PC hardware except for the CPU and the case.  People use Macs for MacOS.  They can convert to MIPS if they want to.  So long as it runs MacOS, it's still a Mac.

Mac is already competing with Windows.  Just because they use PowerPC makes them immune to a company that owns 95% of the PC market?  Please...

All the rest of the world uses X86, including other OS vendors.  It's the most widely supported CPU in the world.  Not everyone likes it, but it works.

MacOS is the only thing that matters for the Mac market, just like AmigaOS is the only thing that matters for the Amiga market.  All this talk of Supirior Hardware is really making me sick.  I don't care what kind of hardware is realeased if I can stop using Windows, but I'm sure not going to pay through the nose for an old, slow machine.

[AmigaMac]

Mac is already competing with Windows.  Just because they use PowerPC makes them immune to a company that owns 95% of the PC market?  Please...

All the rest of the world uses X86, including other OS vendors.  It's the most widely supported CPU in the world.  Not everyone likes it, but it works.

You're missing the major reality of the problem... no software developer (Adobe, Macromedia and etc...) in their right mind is going to support 2 OSes running on the same platform, there's no point in doing it!

Well I'm not sure what you mean by the rest of the world, but I work mostly around SPARC and have been since the early 90s!  Intel is going to replace x86 eventually, so its future will rely on AMD (and VIA probably)!

Not all Mac users prefer Macs just for the OS, some actually appreciate the hardware aspect of it.  I prefer it due to the integration of software and hardware as well as that PowerPC is more efficient than x86 for mobile (laptops) computing in regards to power consumption!

Apple will never go x86, so there is no reason to keep beating this dead horse any longer!!

[minator]

All this talk of Supirior Hardware is really making me sick. I don't care what kind of hardware is realeased if I can stop using Windows, but I'm sure not going to pay through the nose for an old, slow machine.

This debate has been done to death elsewhere no doubt many times over.  Apple may not have the cheapest or fastest hardware but they do have the benefits of integration so it looks good and works out of the box, for most people this is exactly what they want.

But what I increasingly notice is that for most people when you hit close to 1GHz you don't need any more speed.  So, even if PCs are faster most people are not going to notice the difference.

If you need speed things are different.  But I have an 800MHz Athlon and while I've considered upgrading it I've yet to think of a good reason to do it.

For work I use a 700MHz iBook and again it's fine for pretty much everything I do on it.  OS X can be a slug at times but it improves with every update, I don't see the "spinning colour wheel of death" very often these days.

[strobe]

Have Apple ever tried to enter X86 home world?

One word: OPENSTEP

You may shut up now

[Rogue]

Seehund wrote:
Screw that.

Now you are getting to the right level, eh?

Could you for once shut up and respect the decision of those that have the right to make it? You need to finally accept that, and no insults or bitching will change that.

I am fed up of your constant bickering. If you where doing the work, you would be able to decide its course. But you aren't. You're just complaining, like everyone else before.

[Herewegoagain]

the lowest end mac is a total ripoff for that price...

XP 1800= $70 (retail)
EPoX 8RDA =$88
512MB DDR=$150
80gig IBM drive=$101
CDRW/DVD=$90
Antec+350 watt=$180
Gforce4Ti4200=$150


now that system I described is faster has twice the memory... 1/3 more HDD space... its got a much faster graphics card... and its much cheaper.... I dunno what would attract people to crapple hardware these days...

Um....you forgot to add Windows ($129), keyboard ($50 if you want a decent one) and optical mouse ($30),  plus the cost of someone to put it all together for the average person.  Even then you are at 1/2 the cost.  But then you are stuck with Windows (or Linux).

[Rogue]

samface wrote:
However, *maybe* taking a look at the Mac Linux kernel sources could be of help

The trouble with reverse engineering is that you never catch the subtleties until you actually try.

What the Seehund and others faction always overlook (and of course refuse to see even if you wave it in their face) is Customer Support. I don't see the Apple support department answer to Mac customer queries about OS 4. That would mean that someone else would need to take care of that (and I can vividly imagine on what desk it would land).

With a licencing scheme, it will be guaranteed that part of the support (at least the hardware specific stuff) is handled by the hardware company/licence holder. This is the only way that such a thing could be managed.

What really makes me furious (I was about to say is me off, but I don't want to resort to such language) is the fact that regardless of how often I stress this point, I see the same arguments over and over again. No one even acknowledges that this is a problem.  For crying out loud, you can't tell a customer that bought your product that his hardware platform is unsupported, or that we expect trouble because we didn't have documentatiion.

The "Go Mac" argument is always brought up by those people that think that this is the only way to go mainstream, or reach an adequate circulation, but this is exactly the problem - you can't tell Mr. ex-MacOS user "sorry, but we cannot help you if your harddisk driver is constantly crashing". That just doesn't work. People that contact customers support want an answer, not an explanation why things can't be changed.

Of course, everyone will continue to ignore this point, just pointing at "Apples are so cheap when you buy them used". People will go on about how they never contact customer support because they are the Über-Geeks that can do everything all by themselves.

But that is not how customer support works. For the same reason Hyperion doesn't officially support Amithlon and AmigaOS XL with our 68k based games - you cannot honestly sell something when you need to tell the customer "I can't help you" when problems hit.

Sigh. Posting this was probably a waste of time. Seehund will probably jump at the next opportunity to promote his free AmigaOS 4 stuff again.

[Karlos]

Rogue wrote:
Sigh. Posting this was probably a waste of time. Seehund will probably jump at the next opportunity to promote his free AmigaOS 4 stuff again.

Never mind. I'm quite sure the majority of us are happy to pay for OS4. What, do people think you should just go do all this work purely out of the goodness of your heart?

[Wilse]

Hi Rogue,

What really makes me furious (I was about to say is me off, but I don't want to resort to such language) is the fact that regardless of how often I stress this point, I see the same arguments over and over again. No one even acknowledges that this is a problem.

I will. :-)
Seriously, it's always the same people, bringing up the same arguements. The reason you don't see the acknowledgements is that most of us agree with you and don't see the need to come out shouting. What's the term? Silent Majority, I think. ;-)

[Atheist]

If the G4 is on a removeable board, then the Articia P could be placed on that with a 1.42 GHz G4, with upto 2 Gigs on the same board (just like accelerators of the past). Is it possible? Making it possible to go to 4 Gigs. and possibly 2 CPUs.

Amiga! Toying with POWER!!

[Kronos]

Karlos wrote:
Never mind. I'm quite sure the majority of us are happy to pay for OS4.

And that is what makes me furious .....

Noone ever said that OS4 should be free of charge.
But some people think it would be a good idea if OS4 wasn't
restricted to one specific piece of HW as it is been done by
the dongle.

Small difference I would say.

[MarkTime]

@Rogue,

Yes your post is a waste of time, because your customer support theories are just red herrings.

Fact is, if you plan to force someone to pay a $380 dollar premium and claim the reason is customer support when you have obligated yourself to provide exactly NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT,...it is beyond belief.

Customer support at any Amiga dealer or maker of software has been very very poor.  They don't even acknowledge problems, let alone fix them.

But tell you what, please correct me and explain all the customer support you will be contractually obligated to provide.

Tell us, sirrrrr



You are guaranteeing satisfaction or my money back?  You are guaranteeing if my old software doesn't run, you will spend 2 hours on the phone with me until it runs?  If I report a bug, you will fix it?

Or will it be catch as catch can, with you providing support if you feel like, or NOT.......

We all know the drill, you get a nasty e-mail from someone, you post it all over the amiga websites...you announce your dramatic withdrawal from the community and all support ends, and cause your not obligated to make one dimes worth of support, no one gets any...even if you were obligated, a-la $50 t-shirt, that might not happen either.

I value your support as being worth .01cents maximum.

Linux is free, it survives without any official support, but for companies who need more than that, they can go to Red Hat and purchase support.

If you want to sell support, you can do that.  noone will buy it, but feel free to try.

[MarkTime]

@Rogue,

And one other thing!

I don't pull any punches with my criticism, but I hope you will understand my perspective, because it didn't come from no where, it is how things look to me, and maybe some other people too, who knows....

The fact is when you say things like 'I can't give information cause someone didn't like everything I said.'  or....why should I post cause Seehund might have his own opinions...

it doesn't make you sound like a rock solid stable personality that will always be there when someone needs support.

It sounds like to me like yet another of this communities very sensitive personalities...in this community, monthly, some website is shutdown a-la 'amibench' or another person shuts down development, a-la Bernd Myer... when someone gets their feelings hurt.

Quite frankly, I can't pay $380 for support, knowing that if someone sends you an e-mail later that 'hurts your feelings'...that all support will disappear.

These other people aren't you.....but you sure sound like them to me with your comments!

This is not an attack on you, this is my perceptions...if they are wrong, feel free to correct them....but post information or don't post it, but don't sway in the wind because criticism comes your way.

my 2 cents...ok maybe 1 cent.