Amiga technology and patents ownership ?

[Hyperspeed]

One could argue that piracy helped make the Amiga, as it has done lately with the Playstation!

It probably made VHS what it is today also!

Really though - AmigaOne... what's that chip inside it for that offers lockout protection? Is that the only custom hardware it has!?

[bloodline]

Hyperspeed wrote:
One could argue that piracy helped make the Amiga, as it has done lately with the Playstation!

It probably made VHS what it is today also!

Really though - AmigaOne... what's that chip inside it for that offers lockout protection? Is that the only custom hardware it has!?

Eyetech reflashed the standard "OpenFirmware BIOS" (as found on 99% of other PPC motherboards) with a "UBoot BIOS". Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

[humppa]

bloodline wrote:

Eyetech reflashed the standard "OpenFirmware BIOS" (as found on 99% of other PPC motherboards) with a "UBoot BIOS".
Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

Wrong.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2590&start=80#31050

[bloodline]

humppa wrote:
bloodline wrote:

Eyetech reflashed the standard "OpenFirmware BIOS" (as found on 99% of other PPC motherboards) with a "UBoot BIOS".
Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

Wrong.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2590&start=80#31050

Ok then, Mr pedant... The version of AOS4 that is in the wild (ie in the hands of users, and thus available for any board that has been release) can only boot from a UBoot BIOS... Give me a copy of AOS4 that boots from OF and my original statement would be wrong.

[humppa]

bloodline wrote:

Ok then, Mr pedant... The version of AOS4 that is in the wild (ie in the hands of users, and thus available for any board that has been release) can only boot from a UBoot BIOS... Give me a copy of AOS4 that boots from OF and my original statement would be wrong.

What are you talking about? I don't know which version you mean, but it's most likely a version for A1. We have UBoot for the A1. The version for the A1 will rely on UBoot, no question.

However, this does not contradict to Rogues post and the fact that OS4 does not necessarily need UBoot. Ever looked at the BPPC/CSPPC? And how would you do UBoot on an old (mysterious) IBM PPC-PDA?

[bloodline]

humppa wrote:

bloodline wrote:

Ok then, Mr pedant... The version of AOS4 that is in the wild (ie in the hands of users, and thus available for any board that has been release) can only boot from a UBoot BIOS... Give me a copy of AOS4 that boots from OF and my original statement would be wrong.

What are you talking about? I don't know which version you mean, but it's most likely a version for A1. We have UBoot for the A1. The version for the A1 will rely on UBoot, no question.

However, this does not contradict to Rogues post and the fact that OS4 does not necessarily need UBoot. Ever looked at the BPPC/CSPPC? And how would you do UBoot on an old (mysterious) IBM PPC-PDA?

I never once said anywhere that AOS4 needs UBoot. I only said that AOS4 which is available/has been available (in some way) to us (the end user) has relied on UBoot. And, I might add, in reply to the original question, this is the key anti-piracy measure (i.e. custom) part of the AmigaONE...

[Waccoon]

One could argue that piracy helped make the Amiga, as it has done lately with the Playstation!

I buy that.  Though it really helped the platform, not the developers.  Piracy hurts more in certain countries than others, too.

Really, I think the rediculous copy protection schemes used by game developers caused the rampant piracy.  Unreliable and frustrating CP forces people to seek out cracked copies so they don't have to worry about disks dying, typing in annoying passwords, etc.

The modern equivalent includes CP schemes that are incompatible with a given CD-ROM, and games that install drivers that run in the background even when the game is not active, such as Steam and (even worse) Star-Force.  I can't belive game developers are pulling that kind of crap, and it only encourages people to get cracks.  Some drivers even run in kernel mode, to make it less likely that they can be bypassed.  Talk about desperate.

It probably made VHS what it is today also!

In terms of tape technology... definately.  BetaMax, on the other hand, just didn't meet customer requirements.

BTW, what VHS is today: dead.  Even cheapo promotional videos you get with kitchen appliances all come on DVDs.  ;-)

Bloodline:  Eyetech reflashed the standard "OpenFirmware BIOS" (as found on 99% of other PPC motherboards) with a "UBoot BIOS". Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

I'm not a fanatic on this stuff, so I could be wrong, but I thought it went like this:

- 1st production run of AmigaOnes had a ROM instead of an EEPROM.  This caused some issues when firmware updates were made available.  I think only early-bird customers got these boards.

- Later AmigaOnes have an EEPROM, but a custom version of UBoot has a key signature sought by OS4.  However, it can be reflashed.

- OS4 only supports UBoot at the moment, as Hyperion customized UBoot for the AmigaOne (UBoot is an open-source project independent of Hyperion).

- It's customary to reflash the BIOS through a BIOS tool, rather than a boot disk, like on a PC.  There might be a lockout designed to protect the UBoot BIOS from being overwritten by another BIOS, but I don't know that.

Really, there's no "real" hardware difference between AmigaOne and each respective Teron board.  I don't see why the BIOS can't be reflashed, though OS4 wouldn't work, anymore, without a HAL update.

[humppa]

bloodline wrote:

I never once said anywhere that AOS4 needs UBoot.

bloodline wrote:

Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

So you are saying that OS4 "only boots from UBoot" because it doesn't need it? Well... :lol:

[Hyperspeed]

Achtung, Das Boot!

[dammy]

Yeah, but how do you make the money back? Software is flexible, hardware has to be sold quickly.

Also, $50 mil dumped into PPC hardware != $50 mil into hardware that already exists. Why spend tons of money to get some idealistic ball-and-chain that is only marginally better than a very well-tested solution that already sells by the hundreds of thousands? Be coudn't hack it, and that was before the big venture into "integration" that cut x86 motherboard manufacturing costs drasticly while adding tons of standard features.

Exactly.  It's a waste of time and money to do something that already existing in very cheap quantities.  I guess it's human nature to deny reality of a situation and a wanting to return to yesteryear.  Unless one can squeeze in the capabilities of a $3K desktop into a $500 desktop but then your still missing the applications for the OS.

So it's not millions to invest, but we are talking *billions* and I don't see any one with that type of pocket change wanting to carry on R&D for OS4, MOS, or AROS.

Dammy

[bloodline]

humppa wrote:
bloodline wrote:

I never once said anywhere that AOS4 needs UBoot.

bloodline wrote:

Thus AOS4 only boots from UBoot firmware.

So you are saying that OS4 "only boots from UBoot" because it doesn't need it? Well... :lol:

Yes, it only boots from UBoot because that is the "security measure" taken by Hyperion. AOS4 has no technical need for UBoot...

[humppa]

Yes, it only boots from UBoot because that is the "security measure" taken by Hyperion.

But that's wrong. You're running in circles. It does not only boot from UBoot. The Classic version, mystic device version and most likely also the Powervixxen/SharkPPC boot without UBoot. So UBoot as a security measure is quite useless, since the only devices which actually use it are bought together with OS4.

[bloodline]

humppa wrote:

Yes, it only boots from UBoot because that is the "security measure" taken by Hyperion.

But that's wrong. You're running in circles. It does not only boot from UBoot. The Classic version, mystic device version and most likely also the Powervixxen/SharkPPC boot without UBoot. So UBoot as a security measure is quite useless, since the only devices which actually use it are bought together with OS4.

Yeah, becuse I can buy a version of AOS4 that doesn't use UBoot... right...

I've been trolled... :roll: I appologise for adding to the noise in this thread.

[humppa]

Yeah, becuse I can buy a version of AOS4 that doesn't use UBoot... right...

Can I buy a stand-alone version of AOS4 that does use UBoot? No.

Would that in any kind of way change the falseness of your statement?
No.

[Tripitaka]

This is getting a bit silly, give it a rest!  :madashell:
There is little point arguing (or trolling) over uboot anymore. We get the idea!

Security is a hell of an issue for us all. However,:idea:  it seems that things being as they are, if someone (please) had the cash, perhaps it would be possable to get a company like Zone Labs to make an intergrated security suite for the AmigaOS.
Microsoft couldn't do this for Windoze (the monopolies people would go nuts). They had enough grief for building in a browser! On AmigaOS however, who would complain? ;-)  

[Hyperspeed]

Yeah, please no more UBoot.

Let's meditate instead.