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Author Topic: Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...  (Read 97284 times)

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Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;635581
Please note that this is not about ROM image files, or anything else it simply about what would you consider the fairest and best way to be able to obtain Workbench Disks that you may need...

Two questions:

1) If it is not about ROMs, why are you offering ROMs for download on your site?

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z406/analogfiles/Piracy/commodorescotland-com-amiga-rom-download.png

2) If it is about helping honest Amiga owners who lost or damaged their original floppy disks, why are you not setting up a service where you ship actual Amiga floppy disks? You can't write an Amiga floppy disk from a Pc from the files you offer download, so what use are they if you cannot startup the Amiga?

Considering both 1 and 2, your whole proposition looks more like an excuse to attract attention, and for amiga.org to make some Google advertising money.

Copyright is not so difficult to understand. Even if Commodore lost the copyrights for some reason, it would have reverted to the authors, wouldn't it? There is no "public domain" here, except for you and all the ROMs, games, and the movie artwork and music files that you seem to "freely" use on your sites.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638654
Well, well, well seems Cloanto have been lying to us all along, just received some very, very interesting information that Cloanto have been pulling a fast one on the Amiga community for years...

What "lies"? If you accuse someome of lying you could at least back it up with some evidence...

Besides, do you know the difference between a copyright and a registered trademark?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638601
Why did I not contact Cloanto... simple. they do not own the copyrights for Workbench or have the ability to sell or issue me with a legal distribution licence... :)

So you are now admitting that you started all of this without even asking them? This is not what you said in your first post: "Ok... as I reckon after trying to contact the various companies that allegedly hold the rights to distribute the various Workbench Disk Sets and not receiving one dicky bird or even one iota of a response from any of them..."
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: TjLaZer;637286
All this is just crap.  I take the position that if someone wants a Kickstart or Workbench disk for a machine that originally shipped with said disk, they should be able to get a working copy.

Nobody seems to disagree with this, not even Cloanto. Maybe someone should contact them and ask if such a service (using real floppy disks!) can be set up?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638671
Cloanto do not own the copyrights to Workbench nor do they have the power to issue/sell/give away/gift/ or out of the goodness of their hearts allow anyone to obtain distribution rights to Workbench...

How do you know?

And why would you expect them to be kind and contact you ("they have had neither the decency or guts to approach me themselves" in post #89), when you created this big public mess without even asking first? I would not have acted any different. Someone who asks deserves an answer, but in my opinion all you deserve is to be ignored. For these cases it should be enough to have quick and standard procedures apply, whatever they are (ISP takedown notice...)

Possibly they meant nothing bad to you personally, but it's a sad reality in a software company these days that you have to send dozens if not hundreds of DMCA takedown notices every week. Companies like YouTube built their entire multibillion-dollar business model around this. Download sites have an economic incentive (advertising and subscriptions) to host all types of content, even from dubious sources. It is up to the small guys like Cloanto to do all the work in the form of DMCA filings. Cloanto probably just pasted some links that somebody else reported into some automated tool. And if they hadn't done this, it would have been them who was in breach of some obligation.

You seem to have chosen this annoying approach instead of a more friendly and personal one. But apparently it was all your choice?!

It was also your choice to put some files for download instead of offering a floppy-based approach that would help all users (as per your thread subject!!). Now the only answer we are going to get from this is that online piracy is not good, but we already knew that! What benefit does the Amiga community get from this? We need real Amiga-formatted disks, not downloads.

One good side of this that I see here is that your NamesCo ISP is investing some of their own legal resources to actually verify if you have a right to distribute these copyrighted files. Speculating a little bit, that might be the reason why Cloanto hasn't asked for the 3.0 and 3.1 files to be taken down from MediaFire (yet): they only tested the waters with MediaFire, but they want your UK web site to continue to be "infringing", so the situation can be answered in full, rather than covered up.

Which leads me to an even bigger question: what if "Franko" was actually Cloanto itself? :roflmao:
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: commodorejohn;638697
They are a licensee, not a licensor. Is that so very difficult to understand?

One does not exclude the other. A license may grant a right to sublicense.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638660
Nice try... :roflmao:

But such a page doesn't exist on my site, that is a very old screen grab  you have there and the link on it never even existed as I was still at  that point in time trying to track down the rights to the ROMS... :lol:

A page that "doesn't exist"? It was a public link! Of course now you conveniently removed it...

Are you or are you not "theamigacollector" on MediaFire?

Amiga ROM files like the following are linked to from your "Commodore Scotland" site (this grab is not "very old", it was taken yesterday!):

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z406/analogfiles/Piracy/mediafire-com-amigacollector-amiga-rom-download.png

The real Robin Hood at least didn't lie...
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: antonvaltaz;638778
It's occurred to me... most of the time posters have been talking about a 'copyright holder' in the singular, with the assumption that Commodore was the copyright holder of Workbench/AmigaOS and it got somewhat murky after 1994.

Which is indeed what Amiga Forever explains on their site:

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-122

They also have a page where they explain how they re-licensed some things found on the original floppy disks, the rights of which had expired (like the speech), but I can't seem to find that now.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638858
You see Cloanto's only legal claim to the term "Workbench" being used as a tradmark, was issued under the word Workbench being written entirely on it's own ie: "WORKBENCH" or being used as a graphic image of the word Workbench produced in a certain font/image style. For example think of the way McDonalds use their name to distinguish it from any other company that happens to be called McDonalds, ie: the big curved "M" the colours used the style/font used for the name McDonalds...

You are probably not very familiar with trademarks. That trademark is not for a logo, it is for the word in any shape, font, color, etc. You also cannot embed a registered trademark into a composite term, for example by adding a version number to "Workbench". "Workbench 2.04" if used for an operating system name (and not something else, like the other UK marks you found, which are not for an operating system, but for other types of software), would infringe on Cloanto's US trademark, so their claim is valid as I can see it.

Quote from: Franko;638858
but as Cloanto are in no manner whatsoever the Copyright holders of Workbench 2.04 and their trademark was not infringed upon, then as of yesterday I instructed my Solicitors to begin putting together legal proceedings against Cloanto in this matter...

You are probably not very familiar with copyrights either. They don't need to be the "holder", all they need to be is an "authorized agent".
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Quote from: Franko;638922
Workbench... Oops Blatant Trademark Infringement

Would love to drink a cup of tea with you!! Since we can't, let's continue with this distance education program....

There is no trademark infringement by simply writing "Workbench" in a signature.

But if you offer an unlicensed operating system product and stick the "Workbench" label on it, then yes, that becomes a trademark case too, for more than one reason.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Re: Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 05:54:45 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;638934
DMCA is not a copyright law, it's an anti DRM circumvention law. As there is no DRM to circumvent then DMCA is not applicable.

The DMCA has several parts. The one that was used to take down the MediaFire files is the same one that applies to take down copyrighted videos from YouTube, etc. There is no DRM involved in this part.

The other problem that Franko has with his UK provider relates to the terms of service. He placed Amiga ROMs and disk images online for which he had no license, and the terms of service say he can't do that. It's as simple as that.

Quote from: psxphill;638934
However the discussion is about the legality of offering adf's for download, not whether anything bad will happen if you do.

Yes and no. The discussion turned into Franko whining about Cloanto shutting down his sites/files. But Franko here is conveniently "forgetting" that the majority of items in the long list of files that were in the DMCA takedown request that he posted were not floppy disk images, but Amiga ROMs like this one:

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z406/analogfiles/Piracy/mediafire-com-amigacollector-amiga-rom-download.png

I know what I am talking about because I have a user name on the "Commodore Scotland" site, and I saved a few pages and took screen grabs before they were taken down.

--
Franko 'n' Steino virtually drinking tea together, how does that sound? ;-)
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Re: Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 06:03:05 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;638942
Does that mean Hyperion are going to get sued?  Or do they have a license from Cloanto now?

Or has Cloanto gone after their ISP just like they have gone after Franko's

No, because Hyperion have a license. Lots of companies have a valid license. Now don't make me search on the Amiga Forever site, because being whoever I am I should know the KB number by memory ;), but I know the page is there, and it lists at least a dozen of companies who have legal licenses...

As for Cloanto "going after" the ISP, maybe they did so after I emailed them, or somebody else did. Did they have a choice to not do so? I don't know!
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell
 

Offline Steino

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Re: Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 06:06:14 PM »
Quote from: Franko;638946
Look numptie I've known right from the start exactly who you are...

OK, tell me my "Amiga Scotland" username, and if that's right I will admit it. :)
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell