Workbench Disk Sets... What Would Be The Best Way To Obtain Them...

[CSixx]

2) If it is about helping honest Amiga owners who lost or damaged their original floppy disks, why are you not setting up a service where you ship actual Amiga floppy disks? You can't write an Amiga floppy disk from a Pc from the files you offer download, so what use are they if you cannot startup the Amiga?

This is the proper way to handle it. Anyone in possession of an actual Amiga computer is licensed for the use of Workbench (the version the computer came with) for that machine. They are also allowed to make and use backup copies.

I, for one, would be happy to provide a full set of physical copies to anyone that needs them, provided they pay for or supply the media.

[AmigaHeretic]

They DO have rights to it, and that appears to be the problem most people have with them!

They have the rights to "distribute" it just like a 10,000 stores have the right to distribute MS Windows.

If I want to distribute Windows why would I contact Wal-Mart?


I wouldn't, I would contact MS.  That is who Franko should have contacted.

The problem is WHO IS MS in this case?  That IS the question Franko trying to answer. Do you get that?


Now, it's sad if Cloanto feel their toes are being stepped on (personally I don't think they have lost a single $ in sales over this. Roms are not uploaded and the whole AF can be dl'ed anywhere anyway, go after those guys).


The whole point was to see if the "Copyright" holder even exists and would come out of the wood work.

So far this has not happened.    How is this so confusing?

[commodorejohn]

They DO have rights to it, and that appears to be the problem most people have with them!

They are a licensee, not a licensor. Is that so very difficult to understand?

[desiv]

I, for one, would be happy to provide a full set of physical copies to anyone that needs them, provided they pay for or supply the media.

I agree with this, and I've sent copies of WB on floppy to people to get them started before, but there was some discussion of this on another forum and someone found the original legal wording that came with the disks and it basically said you couldn't do that..
(Sorry, can't remember the specifics, but it's not uncommon to include that type of wording..)

So, someone (Cloanto or whomever) would have to have a license to do that.
Currently, it appears Cloanto's license is too specific (to AmigaForever usage) for them to do that..
(and currently they are apparently distributing modified disk images for use with their emulation, not the original disks, which further muddles the issue)

I still think that would be great, but it begs the whole original question, "who own's that?"....

desiv

[AmigaHeretic]

So if I want to distribute Workbench disks who should I contact?

[Piru]

So if I want to distribute Workbench disks who should I contact?

Good question. It is however beside the point. There's no obligation for the licensor to advertise themselves.

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

[TheBilgeRat]

They are a licensee, not a licensor. Is that so very difficult to understand?

I think it is for most of the continental Europeans responding in this thread, which to me says their objections are less about the facts and more that they dislike Franko, OR that their understanding of what is piracy (ironic, considering that all the great torrent sites are European) and ownership is different.  Koft, Piru, and others have made it pretty clear that they see Franko as simply an attention-grabbing whore, so whatever Franko does or doesn't do is going to be met with disinterest at best and caustic retort at worst.

[commodorejohn]

Good question. It is however beside the point. There's no obligation for the licensor to advertise themselves.

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

Technically true, but I don't see why, in the absence of anybody willing to actually lay claim to being the appropriate licensor, we shouldn't make do - I damn well ain't going to wait 69 years for the copyright to expire!

[AmigaHeretic]

Good question. It is however beside the point.

How is that beside the point!?  People are chastising Franko for not contacting Cloanto.  

So if a person wants to distribute Workbench disks are they are they not suppose to contact Cloanto?  Are we changing the story now?


So to get a license I do or I do not contact Cloanto?  I'm soooo confused now.

[Steino]

Cloanto do not own the copyrights to Workbench nor do they have the power to issue/sell/give away/gift/ or out of the goodness of their hearts allow anyone to obtain distribution rights to Workbench...

How do you know?

And why would you expect them to be kind and contact you ("they have had neither the decency or guts to approach me themselves" in post #89), when you created this big public mess without even asking first? I would not have acted any different. Someone who asks deserves an answer, but in my opinion all you deserve is to be ignored. For these cases it should be enough to have quick and standard procedures apply, whatever they are (ISP takedown notice...)

Possibly they meant nothing bad to you personally, but it's a sad reality in a software company these days that you have to send dozens if not hundreds of DMCA takedown notices every week. Companies like YouTube built their entire multibillion-dollar business model around this. Download sites have an economic incentive (advertising and subscriptions) to host all types of content, even from dubious sources. It is up to the small guys like Cloanto to do all the work in the form of DMCA filings. Cloanto probably just pasted some links that somebody else reported into some automated tool. And if they hadn't done this, it would have been them who was in breach of some obligation.

You seem to have chosen this annoying approach instead of a more friendly and personal one. But apparently it was all your choice?!

It was also your choice to put some files for download instead of offering a floppy-based approach that would help all users (as per your thread subject!!). Now the only answer we are going to get from this is that online piracy is not good, but we already knew that! What benefit does the Amiga community get from this? We need real Amiga-formatted disks, not downloads.

One good side of this that I see here is that your NamesCo ISP is investing some of their own legal resources to actually verify if you have a right to distribute these copyrighted files. Speculating a little bit, that might be the reason why Cloanto hasn't asked for the 3.0 and 3.1 files to be taken down from MediaFire (yet): they only tested the waters with MediaFire, but they want your UK web site to continue to be "infringing", so the situation can be answered in full, rather than covered up.

Which leads me to an even bigger question: what if "Franko" was actually Cloanto itself? :roflmao:

[desiv]

So if I want to distribute Workbench disks who should I contact?

And THAT is the question.
Franko is trying to "force" someone to step up.
Technically, you should "undertake duly diligent enquiries to trace the copyright owner."

For me, I'd probably start by sending certified, notarized, stamped, signed, sealed, delivered (did I just break into song there?) legal documents (Yes, I'd run it by a real lawyer) to some of the more obvious people:
Hyperion
Amiga Inc
In fact, on their web page, Amiga.com has:

For information on licensing, or sales of any Amiga Operating System, please use our Contact form.

I'm not saying they are the ones, but that's probably where you'd start..
There is no real legal grounds for abandoment, as Piru has mentioned, unless it is specified.  That is, a company can "choose" to abandon their copyright, which most often when it happens (which isn't often) is that they release it publically themselves.

desiv

[CSixx]

I agree with this, and I've sent copies of WB on floppy to people to get them started before, but there was some discussion of this on another forum and someone found the original legal wording that came with the disks and it basically said you couldn't do that..

At least in the US, anyone is allowed to make and use a backup of any software they are legally entitled to, regardless of what it says in the packaging.

[TheBilgeRat]

Blah Blah Blah

And who are you?  You joined this month, my guess a few days ago.  I feel you are more likely to be representing an interested party than Franko, who, while being a loud obnoxious scotsman, at least has the balls to be open and honest about who he is.

So, either you are a Cloanto rep, or you are a regular on here without the stones to post under an account that people know.  Either way, you are a coward.

[desiv]

At least in the US, anyone is allowed to make and use a backup of any software they are legally entitled to, regardless of what it says in the packaging.

Even that isn't always clear legally..
Although I do it personally.. ;-)

desiv

[Steino]

They are a licensee, not a licensor. Is that so very difficult to understand?

One does not exclude the other. A license may grant a right to sublicense.

[AmigaHeretic]

Even though you don't have this information or valid license due to lack of it it doesn't mean Kickstart or Workbench would somehow become Public Domain or distributing them "Fair Use".

That's the second part of the issue.  I don't think Franko was claiming Fair Use, I was just throwing that out there as a "who knows" because Cloanto never bothered to ask apparently on what grounds Franko was putting the disks up.

Honestly I don't know what grounds Franko put them up.  I do know, that as far as Workbench 3.0 goes there is a strong case to be made it was put into Public Domain by Petro.   I didn't just "somehow" happen as you keep saying, the man did it while in control of the company.  It's documented and all over the Internet now for a decade and a half.