I don't get it.

[DAX]

It's something new and the company pushing it made fucking absurd claims and spun the hype machine to some warp factor beyond comprehension. More amidrama, folks will buy it, get screwed and time will bury it under a layer of delusion. The cycle continues.

Koft go back to moo bunny will ya?

@Karlos
As for why I'll tell you why, MOS and KOFTS stay clam and silent as long as there is no movement in AOS4 camp whatsoever, as soon as something happens they feel threatened and take action in order to demonstrate how in the light of this new events they are still "za s*it", and all the hell break loose.

[DAX]

@pVC
I know there are a lot of nice guys in the MOS community (you, Itix, Guruman just to name a few) but there also those that can't wait to jump at the register forum to denigrate the effort, and depict it in the worse possible way.
How does that help? Why you felt comppeled to do it?
I'll tell you why and it has to do with persuasion my friend, they just don't want OS4 to get attention and try to ruin it as much as they can.
There is no other reason than fear.

[DAX]

Umm, no? Go "back" to moobunny? Amiga.org is where I roost. I've made a few dozen posts on the moo, 1600 posts here. I see you joined here in JUN 2010 and have 88 posts. Maybe you should crawl back to where ever you came from. Don't though, forums need meat.

You know me koft, don't play dumb, and i indicated moo bunny as it fits you not based on post counts...

[DAX]

Having a bit of competition between the multiple camps is a good thing, spurs on development of new products and code.   Now if you examine the multiple camps, most of them have looked to aim pricing around $200-$400 with hardware and OS.  One camp is charging double that for their low end and their high end goes for many times higher amount.  That makes the comparison of buck:bang ratio valid between the competing products and a significant loser is going to get a drumming on how poorly they do in that comparison.  Reason majority of them are going for cheapest route possible for their platform is economic conditions by aiming at a sweet spot where it's a reasonable purchase.

It all boils down to what you want, I might be willing to spend premium for a dedicated custom designed hardware made for AmigaOS (the AmigaOne X1000) while I wouldn't use an Open source OS on my sister dismissed PC, which would cost me nothing.
It is about what you are trying to offer, what its your vision for the future, those that care to run the official endeavor on dedicated machines don't mind the higher price, they simply find it a more dignified dimension for Amiga to be.
Of course everyone has its own opinion, it would seem that the above one is not much respected though and attacked continuously.

Get over it. Not everybody accepts Amiga as being a vagrant OS running on other's system scraps (no matter how cheap they are), and are willing to go out of their way for Amiga not to end like that. just respect this simple concept (instead of attacking it continuously) and we will all get along nicely.
I don't see AOS4 users attacking other paradigms on purpose, just when provoked.

[DAX]

Problem is the design might be custom, the hardware is off the shelf.  There is not one specialized chip on the mobo.   That would be like bragging over a customized x86 with parts dating back from 2007 (or earlier) is a uber specialized hardware platform to run whatever OS on it.  Now I do wonder where ACube's systems come into play since your not mentioning them, they can go pound sand since they are not only for OS4?

sadly I will have to repeat myself here as this the usual classic lovers mantra:

Your idea of custom HW is still pretty much connected to 1980's, where 2D raster  graphics game consoles (one, Lorraine, was turned into a computer) were all the rage, however we are in 2010 and if you need to decide how the computer for your OS will look like today (ie:what happens in the real world) you will have a team of  engineers sits around a table (either real or virtual) to decide what  will be best based on what  technology is "possible".

As we discussed with user The_Leander thoroughly, C= had decided  Amiga was a dead parrot and scrapped it completely (ie: if they dind't  go bankrupt there would have been no Amiga whatsoever in any way or  form).And even if they did they were entering an era where the insurmountable speed of evolution of off the shelf graphic chips, was impossible to compete with.
Since the new Amiga described at 1993 DevCon was to be modular and AAA was scrapped as being too little too late, the new Amiga would have used a GPU like modern machines.

BUT alas, that was scrapped in favor of a game console based on the Hombre chipset  but this HW was no Amiga as Dave Haynie confessed:

      Quote:
                                                 

Strictly speaking, Hombre is not an Amiga chip set.  While it  supports some of the Amiga ideas, it's no more Amiga compatible than an  SVGA chip (less actually, since all SVGA chips support planar as well as  chunky displays,at least up to 4 bits/pixel).
The Amiga OS was not to have run on this system in any form.      

They also had a WindowsNT PA-Risc  based workstation planned (note that none of the above projects even  came close to completion).        

AmigaOne X1000 is as good as it gets judging how things went and how the world is changin and moving workloads from the CPU to the GPU.

Not too many are attacking individuals who are going to purchase this monsterly expensive hardware.  The companies responsible for hype for this machine that the OS can not fully use, OTOH, is fair game IMO.

Fine let's keep the confrontation then, see how good we do to the community and Amiga in general (read my following post).

I'm sure they would if they have a better bang:buck ratio they could brag about.

Why don't we give it a try and see if we get peaceful instead? (again read my post below)

[DAX]

@mikeymike @takemehomemama

You are right, I did that (and other times) quite on purpose actually, just to show how this confrontation doesn't lead to anything good for anyone.

My suggestion (from the start, read my very first posts) is to get along, avoid depicting other flavors in bad light since they can do the same with you (as i did above on purpose) and even defend any Amiga flavor from others attacking it from the outside.

Let's make this a friendly competition where we salute what the other group is trying to accomplish. Aos is trying the old fashioned computer+os package, it's early, let's see where they land,  MOS is rejuvenating mac HW that goes slow with OSX but fly with MorphOS (and can get back a lot of ex amigans gone mac), Aros is our Amiga flag when it comes to battling it out in the world of open source OSs, and so on.

I repeat, those that thinking to have" this" or "that" advantage believe it's the best way to show how their system is "za sh*it" will only make it ugly, hurt their very own camp and the community.

I am ready to play it like this. Are you?

[DAX]

Somebody tried that already:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6ZfFn-Fz5-cJ:www.amiga25.com/+amiga25&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Steve was at VFC and had a terrific time with mikey_c and the other AOS4.1 team members, including Trevor Dickinson who gave him several vintage A1000 parts to complete his A1000 DEmo station.

We can do it!

@TMHM
Read my post #64, what do you think? can we do it? Can we understand that the ultimate demise of the other camp isn't a necessary condition for one camp to thrive?

[DAX]

It is not that easy. Because then critics are just ->NULL. And that is not the way forward. I am generally interested in Amiga. If I see flaws I voice them. No matter if this is OS4, AROS or MorphOS.
And if you voice flaws ppl crawl out defending the opposite standpoint. Then you elaborate your standpoint and so forth. That's the point when a discussion can easly turn into an argument.
Plus, ppl are pretty different. I like rather straight talk and am usually open for some sarcasm.  Some ppl don't like straight talk and cannot cope with sarcasm at all. That meks discussions not easier.

There is "way" and "way", morover you cannot even start to understand how much i like discussing to no end, let me tell you we all sacrifice something for the good of Amiga, our love for discussion and/or harsh confrontations should take second place.

[DAX]

Surely you didn't just start watching this whole episode in June 2010? It may seem like OS4 is taking the brunt of slagging now, but were you around to see how this story played out to this point? Do you remember the "MorphOS is based on stolen source code" FUD campaign? It was much nastier in the past and most of it was against any alternative. Amithlon was also a "camp" that was to be hated and attacked.

They told me about it. But this Feud should end wouldn't you think it will benefit us all?
I have no problems to suggest MOS to people owning a MacMini (I usually do) and don't go in threads where they ask about MOS saying things "it isnt te reeel!!!" (as TMHM put it).

[DAX]

Think Hatfields and McCoys.
 
 This is nothing and I mean NOTHING like the past. It is also a tiny fraction of what the "kommunity" was in the past. Most people understand at this point it is just a hobby. Only the most dellusional think one of these OSes will go mainstream.

And I'm certainly not one of them, to me all we can get is a small niche.

Anyway, i understand that asking for this feud to end completely is unrealistic, there will always be uncontrollable individuals, but the rest of us can avoid jumping in enforcing this guys, how old are we anyway?

If in the future AOS gets a full Mesa port and new 3D drivers, i won't come here saying "look MOSSERS, shove that 64MB vram c*ap up your a*se now". I will just be happy and will also do anything in my power to shut any red troll that would do something like that (I certainly hope there won't be any, we are old for crying out loud).

The MOS community is a good one, and the Aos one is also a good one in 2010 no matter what happened back then.

We can at least improve things ten folds IMHO.

[DAX]

Then why is A-EON trying to pass this off as the new A1000?   Oh wait, it's like it, but not like it, but it's all the same, right?  A1000 had innovation with WB 1.x and OCS that had a reasonable bang:buck ratio.  A1X1K has a SoC with a dual core the OS can't fully access, a useless IO setup with a eye watering price tag.  This sure ain't the A1000 that I remember.

Times have changed. The A1000 was expensive and sold to a few, no software really took advantage of its power, that didn't stop it to be the start of something good.
The X1000 can be a start too but in a "sense" that takes in consideration where Amiga was going as a desktop computer (and not as a game console).
Technology wise Amiga500 should have received the Ranger chipset when it came out, with AGA on the market around 1989/1990 and AAA in 1991/92.
They were late all the time, missed the boat, and if it wasn't for RTG and AHI 16-Bit sound cards, the chipsets would have never prompted Amiga as a professional media authoring station (even J.Miner lamented about this in a famous interview).  

The rest is hystory Amiga evolved into a professional workstation sporting OS3, RTG and accelerator cards.

Finally GPUs took over the world.

It's inevitable for X1000 to be an extension of that direction, certainly not the extension of console like 2D raster graphics HW.

Actually the first step is to do a market survey to see what areas that are possible to exploit at a given price range.  Once a market is clearly defined then consult with the design engineers to begin forming a business plan.   Putting together a product at whatever price and hope that a market share will magically open for you is not what will work in the real world.

X1000 as many know is not aimed at mainstream, but to AmigaOS NG users. it would be great if they will do a cheaper machine in the future aimed at ex-amigans "in a more general sense" but this is not it, at the moment. I certainly hope they do something down the line when the OS will be more mature.

[DAX]

Yeah...sure...
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5501&start=0#74400

Once again, I don't see AROS people bashing on MorphOS, MorphOS people bashing the 68K Amiga, or vice-versa of any combination. Bring OS4 into the mix though and you've got a split. The reason is, only OS4 claims to be Amiga - aside from the 68K camp of course, which really IS Amiga!

If OS4 was HypeOS4, you'd see a lot less friction between everyone. The irony in the post I linked above is, Hyperion's obsession with using "Amiga" in their product's name.

I realize Dax that you feel simply because you were away since the mid-90's and came back to find Hyperion and their partners using the Amiga name that they are the Amiga. If you somehow got lost for several years and returned to find strangers living in your house using your family name, would you just as readily accept them as your family? It seems so.

You must give Cesar what belong to cesar, and that is valid for all camps. Hyperion have some points on their part being that Amiga Inc. entitled them with what was to be their more standard development of the platform (being AmigaOne computers running AmigaOS4) .
We do also need to stop claiming that the direct continuation of OS3  development (whose source code utilization is Hyperion exclusive) AmigaOS4, has  nothing to do with the old AmigaOS as I heard many times, as it is just, well, a delusion.

That said, do not confound that use of "Amiga" to mark their NG developments (they have their legal rights to do so) with some red guy dismissing MOS (or Aros) as not being Amiga when provoked (or because he is a troll).
Mos and Aros are as Amiga as anything else, and I do agree this statement should be defended, by Red people too.
They have their history and they deserve maximum legitimation as real Amiga solutions.

[DAX]

I think it is worth noting that Trevor D did say somewhere that he was not averse to other OSes being written for the X1000.

Nothing to stop AROS or even MorphOS being ported to it.

Can the X1000 be purchased without AmigaOS?

Not initially, but I would truly love to see MOS on it and would surely buy it (I am considering a MOS PowerBook if they do things right, in any case).

[DAX]

IIRC, from the paperwork filed during the law suit with AI, didn't Hyperion say they didn't use it (68K machine code)?

Amiga Inc, threatened them to use their OS3 property, in the end they settled by giving Hyperion exclusive rights to it. One of their represetatives when asked the question after the settlement responded that yes, AOS4 was built from OS3.1 source code (they have rights now, and can speak freely).

[DAX]

You may want to sit and think about this: They state in a court of law, under oath that OS4 is a clean re-write, that it contains no OS3.1 code whatsoever. Then the moment they "win", state publicly that in fact it does contain the code they previously denied.

You do understand that that is perjury, right?

--edit--

Oh wait, this was DAX saying this. Nevermind.

the first part was just my hypothesis on what might have happened based on  dammy statement.
However since you seem so adamant, you should point me out the exact document where they stated under oath about 3.1 not being used. (i'll be waiting for this).
As for the second part they confirmed something along those lines at last year Amiwest after a direct question.