I don't get it.

[dammy]

It all boils down to what you want, I might be willing to spend premium for a dedicated custom designed hardware made for AmigaOS (the AmigaOne X1000) while I wouldn't use an Open source OS on my sister dismissed PC, which would cost me nothing.

Problem is the design might be custom, the hardware is off the shelf.  There is not one specialized chip on the mobo.   That would be like bragging over a customized x86 with parts dating back from 2007 (or earlier) is a uber specialized hardware platform to run whatever OS on it.  Now I do wonder where ACube's systems come into play since your not mentioning them, they can go pound sand since they are not only for OS4?

It is about what you are trying to offer, what its your vision for the future, those that care to run the official endeavor on dedicated machines don't mind the higher price, they simply find it a more dignified dimension for Amiga to be.
Of course everyone has its own opinion, it would seem that the above one is not much respected though and attacked continuously.

Not too many are attacking individuals who are going to purchase this monsterly expensive hardware.  The companies responsible for hype for this machine that the OS can not fully use, OTOH, is fair game IMO.

Get over it. Not everybody accepts Amiga as being a vagrant OS running on other's system scraps (no matter how cheap they are), and are willing to go out of their way for Amiga not to end like that. just respect this simple concept (instead of attacking it continuously) and we will all get along nicely.
I don't see AOS4 users attacking other paradigms on purpose, just when provoked.

I'm sure they would if they have a better bang:buck ratio they could brag about.

[Kronos]

but a nice market of 10,000 or even 100,000 users can be achieved.

Actually those pie-in-the-sky fantasies are what lays at the root of all problems coming from the red side ......


With the "current" (announced) combination of HW and SW each might make 1000 users now and another 1000 with good luck.

Combine the cheapness of AROS-HW with the name of Amiga and the Quality of MorphOS-SW and you might make it to 5000 (over the long haul). Add some real (exclusive) killer-apps and you might make 10000, but the age of killer-apps has long past.

The only way to achieve 100000 or more is if some fool pours in atleast 1 billion $ into a project like Apple's iPad, and then replaces the actual OS with something somewhat more sensible (or in other words, Amino-Clowns again only this time with actual money and an CEO/CTO-IQ above room-temparature (meassured in Celcius) ).

[DAX]

Problem is the design might be custom, the hardware is off the shelf.  There is not one specialized chip on the mobo.   That would be like bragging over a customized x86 with parts dating back from 2007 (or earlier) is a uber specialized hardware platform to run whatever OS on it.  Now I do wonder where ACube's systems come into play since your not mentioning them, they can go pound sand since they are not only for OS4?

sadly I will have to repeat myself here as this the usual classic lovers mantra:

Your idea of custom HW is still pretty much connected to 1980's, where 2D raster  graphics game consoles (one, Lorraine, was turned into a computer) were all the rage, however we are in 2010 and if you need to decide how the computer for your OS will look like today (ie:what happens in the real world) you will have a team of  engineers sits around a table (either real or virtual) to decide what  will be best based on what  technology is "possible".

As we discussed with user The_Leander thoroughly, C= had decided  Amiga was a dead parrot and scrapped it completely (ie: if they dind't  go bankrupt there would have been no Amiga whatsoever in any way or  form).And even if they did they were entering an era where the insurmountable speed of evolution of off the shelf graphic chips, was impossible to compete with.
Since the new Amiga described at 1993 DevCon was to be modular and AAA was scrapped as being too little too late, the new Amiga would have used a GPU like modern machines.

BUT alas, that was scrapped in favor of a game console based on the Hombre chipset  but this HW was no Amiga as Dave Haynie confessed:

      Quote:
                                                 

Strictly speaking, Hombre is not an Amiga chip set.  While it  supports some of the Amiga ideas, it's no more Amiga compatible than an  SVGA chip (less actually, since all SVGA chips support planar as well as  chunky displays,at least up to 4 bits/pixel).
The Amiga OS was not to have run on this system in any form.      

They also had a WindowsNT PA-Risc  based workstation planned (note that none of the above projects even  came close to completion).        

AmigaOne X1000 is as good as it gets judging how things went and how the world is changin and moving workloads from the CPU to the GPU.

Not too many are attacking individuals who are going to purchase this monsterly expensive hardware.  The companies responsible for hype for this machine that the OS can not fully use, OTOH, is fair game IMO.

Fine let's keep the confrontation then, see how good we do to the community and Amiga in general (read my following post).

I'm sure they would if they have a better bang:buck ratio they could brag about.

Why don't we give it a try and see if we get peaceful instead? (again read my post below)

[gazgod]

Not too many are attacking individuals who are going to purchase this monsterly expensive hardware.  The companies responsible for hype for this machine that the OS can not fully use, OTOH, is fair game IMO.

I agree, I haven't seen any name calling and labeling that is often so prevalent on AWN. But it seems to be that a minority (on here anyway) of OS4 users take criticism of the companies and products involved as a personal attack.

I had some fantastic comments about my Morphos box at VCF, looking more modern and so responsive. And several from people who were impressed with what I was running only to run away when they discovered that I was in league with the dark side

I found the X1000 display pretty unimpressive, but then having wasted money in Hyperion's direction twice before, the x1000 would have to be able to pick winning lottery numbers every time for me to stump up the cash

[DAX]

@mikeymike @takemehomemama

You are right, I did that (and other times) quite on purpose actually, just to show how this confrontation doesn't lead to anything good for anyone.

My suggestion (from the start, read my very first posts) is to get along, avoid depicting other flavors in bad light since they can do the same with you (as i did above on purpose) and even defend any Amiga flavor from others attacking it from the outside.

Let's make this a friendly competition where we salute what the other group is trying to accomplish. Aos is trying the old fashioned computer+os package, it's early, let's see where they land,  MOS is rejuvenating mac HW that goes slow with OSX but fly with MorphOS (and can get back a lot of ex amigans gone mac), Aros is our Amiga flag when it comes to battling it out in the world of open source OSs, and so on.

I repeat, those that thinking to have" this" or "that" advantage believe it's the best way to show how their system is "za sh*it" will only make it ugly, hurt their very own camp and the community.

I am ready to play it like this. Are you?

[jorkany]

It seems that the X1000 announcement has sent the forum into a timewarp backwards to 2003 or so. I've not seen so much amiga "sectarianism" for a long time.

So, the X1000. It's going to be expensive. We all pretty much understand that. What I don't quite get is why this seems to be such a catalyst for the old Red v Blue nonsense.

The only people that the X1000 was ever going to appeal to is people in the "Red" camp. I strongly doubt anybody in either the "Blue" or "Black" camp would ever buy it, not at any price. The obvious reason being that one's choice of OS dictates pretty much what you can use hardware wise. If you are a MorphOS guy, you are going to get a Peg, Efika or more likely a Mac of some description. End of story, really. Likewise, if you are an AROS guy you're going to choose whatever x86 based kit works for you.

So why all the angst of the X1000, it's price, performance? Personally I like 3.x and it's gang of unruly offspring. I probably use OS4 most of all the "next gen" stuff, but I'm considering a ppc mac at some point so that I can fiddle around with a more up to date MorphOS too.

But that's me. Many others are quite singular in their preference. Which is fine, I have no problem with that. However, if I were predisposed to just one of them, I really would not give a rats rectum about what any of the others are up to. Why would I?

Am I alone in wondering what all this recent nonsense is about?

I'd like to point out one thing, feel free to disagree. If you're going to talk about "camps", I've never seen dissention between the 68K Amiga, AROS, and MorphOS camps. Think about that for a while.

[jorkany]

Why don't we give it a try and see if we get peaceful instead? (again read my post below)

Somebody tried that already:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6ZfFn-Fz5-cJ:www.amiga25.com/+amiga25&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[takemehomegrandma]

Don't you think this comment might be taken offensively by users of other platforms? (my emphasis)

There are a few people (always the same people) who do this all the time, all over, not only on amiga.org.

One of my favorites is "I want Amiga, not Windows MacOS, Linux, or MorphOS", i.e. when they group MorphOS together with completely alien OS's, and discard it as such. "MOS is not TEH REEEL!!!11!!". Belittling and degrading. "...but it's not Amiga". And when you present rational  arguments on why MorphOS is actually more Amiga and more preferable than "TEH REEEL!!!11!!", they are never able to present counter arguments, instead they start some meta-discussions about the discussion itself, crying "Foul!", "The war is over", "Moderators!",  and "I don't see OS4 people posting negative stuff on MorphZone.org" or such crap. This pattern always repeats.

There is a term for these people: BAF's. Blind Amiga Followers. This is a good term, since it describes both their inability to consider options, as well as their priorities; a semi-robbed, quasi trademark is all they care about. Having the ultimate Amiga NG experience doesn't interest them at all.

Boing! Boing!

[DAX]

Somebody tried that already:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6ZfFn-Fz5-cJ:www.amiga25.com/+amiga25&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Steve was at VFC and had a terrific time with mikey_c and the other AOS4.1 team members, including Trevor Dickinson who gave him several vintage A1000 parts to complete his A1000 DEmo station.

We can do it!

@TMHM
Read my post #64, what do you think? can we do it? Can we understand that the ultimate demise of the other camp isn't a necessary condition for one camp to thrive?

[zylesea]

I repeat, those that thinking to have" this" or "that" advantage believe it's the best way to show how their system is "za sh*it" will only make it ugly, hurt their very own camp and the community.

I am ready to play it like this. Are you?

It is not that easy. Because then critics are just ->NULL. And that is not the way forward. I am generally interested in Amiga. If I see flaws I voice them. No matter if this is OS4, AROS or MorphOS.
And if you voice flaws ppl crawl out defending the opposite standpoint. Then you elaborate your standpoint and so forth. That's the point when a discussion can easly turn into an argument.
Plus, ppl are pretty different. I like rather straight talk and am usually open for some sarcasm.  Some ppl don't like straight talk and cannot cope with sarcasm at all. That meks discussions not easier.

[redrumloa]

I don't see AOS4 users attacking other paradigms on purpose, just when provoked.

Surely you didn't just start watching this whole episode in June 2010? It may seem like OS4 is taking the brunt of slagging now, but were you around to see how this story played out to this point? Do you remember the "MorphOS is based on stolen source code" FUD campaign? It was much nastier in the past and most of it was against any alternative. Amithlon was also a "camp" that was to be hated and attacked.

[DAX]

It is not that easy. Because then critics are just ->NULL. And that is not the way forward. I am generally interested in Amiga. If I see flaws I voice them. No matter if this is OS4, AROS or MorphOS.
And if you voice flaws ppl crawl out defending the opposite standpoint. Then you elaborate your standpoint and so forth. That's the point when a discussion can easly turn into an argument.
Plus, ppl are pretty different. I like rather straight talk and am usually open for some sarcasm.  Some ppl don't like straight talk and cannot cope with sarcasm at all. That meks discussions not easier.

There is "way" and "way", morover you cannot even start to understand how much i like discussing to no end, let me tell you we all sacrifice something for the good of Amiga, our love for discussion and/or harsh confrontations should take second place.

[redrumloa]

Don't you think this comment might be taken offensively by users of other platforms? (my emphasis)
 
I'm thinking of dusting off my moderation privs, there's certainly one other post in this thread that I would use it on.

Go for it, someone else can be called "Hitler" besides Karlos or me for a change:lol:

[DAX]

Surely you didn't just start watching this whole episode in June 2010? It may seem like OS4 is taking the brunt of slagging now, but were you around to see how this story played out to this point? Do you remember the "MorphOS is based on stolen source code" FUD campaign? It was much nastier in the past and most of it was against any alternative. Amithlon was also a "camp" that was to be hated and attacked.

They told me about it. But this Feud should end wouldn't you think it will benefit us all?
I have no problems to suggest MOS to people owning a MacMini (I usually do) and don't go in threads where they ask about MOS saying things "it isnt te reeel!!!" (as TMHM put it).

[redrumloa]

They told me about it. But this Feud should end wouldn't you think it will benefit us all?
I have no problems to suggest MOS to people owning a MacMini (I usually do) and don't go in threads where they ask about MOS saying things "it isnt te reeel!!!" (as TMHM put it).

 
Think Hatfields and McCoys.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield-McCoy_feud
 
It probably will never go away completely until the fat lady sings. Unless you witnessed this history first hand, you probably wouldn't get it. The fighting goes back to the late-90s at least when there was a WarpUp / PowerUp split. In between there have been legal threats, real life lawsuits, FUD campaigns against not only products but individuals etc. In the past it was not just users engaging in this nonsense, but individuals in the companies themselves. Sprinkle in tons of vapor and outrage fraud / theft of money, the mix is toxic.
 
I can't speak for other forums, but Amiga.org in 2010 is a pretty calm and respectful place compared to the past. This is nothing and I mean NOTHING like the past. It is also a tiny fraction of what the "kommunity" was in the past. Most people understand at this point it is just a hobby. Only the most dellusional think one of these OSes will go mainstream.

[DAX]

Think Hatfields and McCoys.
 
 This is nothing and I mean NOTHING like the past. It is also a tiny fraction of what the "kommunity" was in the past. Most people understand at this point it is just a hobby. Only the most dellusional think one of these OSes will go mainstream.

And I'm certainly not one of them, to me all we can get is a small niche.

Anyway, i understand that asking for this feud to end completely is unrealistic, there will always be uncontrollable individuals, but the rest of us can avoid jumping in enforcing this guys, how old are we anyway?

If in the future AOS gets a full Mesa port and new 3D drivers, i won't come here saying "look MOSSERS, shove that 64MB vram c*ap up your a*se now". I will just be happy and will also do anything in my power to shut any red troll that would do something like that (I certainly hope there won't be any, we are old for crying out loud).

The MOS community is a good one, and the Aos one is also a good one in 2010 no matter what happened back then.

We can at least improve things ten folds IMHO.