Regarding the naming of new A-eon systems

[takemehomegrandma]

The future systems from A-eon will not have the "X" prefix, but an "A" prefix, followed by numbers, like A1500, A2000, A3000, A4000, A5000, A4000/20, A4000/40, A5000/20, A5000/40, A5020, A5040.

Personally, I think this is more than a bit offensive, kind of a violation to real Amigas and their history. Parasite marketing if you like. I think they have gone too far this time.

If they wanted to drop the "X" part (after having "invested" so much into the whole "what is the X", "Xorro", "Xena" and whatever), a better naming scheme would IMHO be to use the CPU names to differ them, since it will be the same motherboard with the various CPU's as the only difference, like "Amigaone p5020".

What do you think? What's an "A4000" to you, for example?

[takemehomegrandma]

if anyone wants to hear what was actually discussed then just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAq23xRiISI

Indeed, the discussion starts at 18m55s.

Crikey if you're "seriously offended" by this, god only knows how you'll cope in the real world! :-)

FWIW, they can call them them anything they want for all I care

Had they called it "PS3" you can bet your left hand that some PS3 enthusiasts would have been upset, because it's not a Playstation 3 (and Sony would come after them of course, since this is an unregistered trademark they use, but that's not my point). Or if a new car manufacturer that's going to produce a brand new car model would market it under an abandoned (but well known) model name from another, dead, manufacturer, despite the model has nothing at all to do with that old one, then you can bet your right hand that there will be an angry bunch of veteran car enthusiasts who are devoted to that *real* model, since it has nothing to do with the cars they are interested in, and it only causes confusion. Or if the MorphOS team would rename their OS to "AOS 5" ("AOS" not meaning *anything* here of course, especially not anything close to "Amiga"), you don't think people would be upset?

So cut down on the insults, don't play stupid and and don't tell me you can't see the controversy here. Maybe you don't care, but I can assure you I'm not the only one who does.

Using numbers associated with the classic systems we all know, prefixed with the letter 'A' will just lead to confusion on the forums. This is completely retarded. I get that there's a want to pay tribute to the original systems, and that's fine, but the naming schema should easily reflect that these systems aren't classic machines because people are going to shorthand the names. Nobody's going to write out "AmigaOne A3000" if that's the official name. They're going to write "a3000". Prefix with the letter 'X' or come up with a different numbering scheme. When classic users are googling for info and support about classic machines, they shouldn't be pulling up posts about OS 4 kit that has nothing to do with what they're looking for.

+1 on everything and all you wrote!

Let them write A3000. I think you're all getting confused. The only Amigas with an A prefix were the A1200 and the A600.  All the other classics had no such prefix in front of their number.
Let them name them what they want.

It's a de-facto naming convention; *all* real Amiga models can be shortened with an "A"+model number. Everyone does this, all the time, and everyone understands.

Totally agree.

I have nothing against A-Eon wanting to promote their appreciation of, and background in, the classic Amiga this way - it's good marketing - but confusion with existing model numbers should be avoided at all costs.

Hell, x3000 x5000/20 and x5000/40 would do just fine.

x1, x3, x5 - they are supposed to be 'odd' computers after all

+1 on this one too! And it's not "good marketing", it's *bad* marketing. IMHO it's unethical, it's parasite marketing, and it will create a lot of badwill for them.

Regardless of there being no official A3000 etc they should not rename their machines with numbers to cause confusion with the original amigas. I don't know of a anyone who has never said A3000,A2000 etc. It will just cause confusion.
Besides there are plenty of letters in thealphabet left and a boatload numbers out there, let them pick some not used by the original machines.

+1, couldn't agree more! The real reason for them going "A" should be clear to anyone. The logical thing would be to stick with the "X", or as you say, there are lots of different letters (if you for some reason want to continue with the stupid "letter plus 4-digit-number" scheme, like for example "P5020" (like the processor's name). Or you could simply give it a proper name based on a real word or something). Even "A5000" or "A6000" etc would be kind of ugly IMHO.

:pissed:

[takemehomegrandma]

@ grandma

I hope the MorphOS team could find a deal with A-Eon to use these new boards for new MorphOS system! especially as A-Eon has stated they will be selling single boards now.

It'll be cool to see the different case designs with the Blue butterfly:drink:

How is it now, is A-eon still stained by Ben Hermans/Hyperion? This is otherwise a known show stopper. Other than that, I think it comes down to viability; like a reasonable and realistic price and what level of usability you get for the money, longevity, etc. The X1000 was a catastrophe in this regard, sheer madness, and I think it was a good decision to not support it (even disregarding Ben Hermans issues). Much remains to be seen regarding these new "A3000" (:insane:) etc machines. And another thing that may affect a decision is how the MorphOS team looks at the future and viability of PPC in general, like how much efforts should really be spent on new HW based on this architecture vs. introducing something new. Several MorphOS team members has talked about a future MorphOS platform migration, several years ago even.

[takemehomegrandma]

Personally I would recommend A-Eon stick to the X number scheme.  X3000, X5020, whatever.  

+1

Or simply call it something readable/meaningful to human beings, some kind of word, an adjective, a noun, or whatever.

[takemehomegrandma]

@Derf, etc...

You know, it's a good thing that not everyone has your mindset (very few actually), and that everyone is actually able to raise and discuss any issue at free will. It turns out that quite a few people agrees that the "A" naming scheme is a really bad idea, like I *knew* people would, and many have sent e-mails to A-eon about this. This obviously opened their eyes to such a degree, that now when the actual voting starts, they have gone from four voting options to *twelve*, of which only the first four is "A" options (and a few rather strange "AX" options for some reason). Other than those, there are "X" (the most logical one), "P" (the second most logical one, at least if followed by CPU model number), and "Q". Don't really understand that last one, but maybe that's just me.

Anyway, here are the options:

http://a-eon.com/18-10-2013-6.pdf

From discussions in this thread and elsewhere, I suppose the voting will result in them keeping the "X" naming scheme (which is a good idea IMHO), alternatively "P".

If not going with the "X" like in Option 12 for example, then the best option IMHO would be an "Option 13", meaning Option 12 but "P" instead of "X". That would simply be the CPU model names:

• P3041 (I have no idea about the logic behind the "3500" that is in several of the options instead of 3041)
• P5020
• P5040

[takemehomegrandma]

I think the X scheme makes most sense since that's where A-EON started

+1

but A5000 be less offensive to you since it was never used on models produced by Commodore, Escom or Quickpac?

No, the A5000 was something many dreamed of back in the days of the Commodore bankruptcy; meaning the logical big-box follow up to the A4000. And whatever this would have been ("AAA"/whatever), *this* is *not* it!

In my view it's really simple: Everything starting with an "A" followed by numbers would be unethical, since by the de-facto naming convention used by everyone, this is "reserved" for Classic Amigas, and it would intrude on Amiga's history and greatness, and the only reason to why anyone would want to do this, would be to *parasite* on it!

I don't really think Trevor wants to do this. I think it will mean a lot of badwill doing so. From the response they have been given, I'm convinced they have now realized they should stay away from "A" altogether...

[takemehomegrandma]

A3000 vs. A1-A3000, what's the confusion?

In reality, you only have to look around to see that for yourself that very few people today writes out the full "Amigaone X1000", and it must be very few times I have seen people write "A1-X1000" (none I can recall right now actually). People simply say "X1000".

There is your answer!

[takemehomegrandma]

And the ridiculous sentiments of outrage over the use of an "A" prefix?
Are you guys serious?

I'd say that this is *not* a small issue for most Amigans, and I don't know what you try to accomplish by belittle and ridicule it?

Hey, I'd like to see them move from AmigaOne to Amiga.

Luckily they will never be able to.

[takemehomegrandma]

From amigans (Steve Solie):

http://www.amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1962

"Further more, do you think there are more people buying the beast, if a search engine will present Cyrus base System when you enter Amiga 5000?

Absolutely yes.

Could this be confusing? Is this inconsistent? Yeah but nobody cares. The only people who do care are the hard core Amiga guys. The hard core Amiga guys have made up their minds already so there is no point in pandering to them. We need to think outside this microcosm. After reading "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" recently I'm quite sure Jack Tramiel wouldn't think twice about using the A5000 label because his focus was always on selling more units which is the primary objective here as well."

I think it speaks for itself...

It seems they never learn. Sigh.

[takemehomegrandma]

"Further more, do you think there are more people buying the beast, if a search engine will present Cyrus base System when you enter Amiga 5000?"

   Hint: The only ones that will be interested to even google "Amiga 5000" in 2013 would be the hard core Amiga guys in a certain microcosm.

"Absolutely yes."

   Well, if you want search hits by using "clever" name associations you should call it "Amigaone iPhone 5s" or "Amigaone Facebook" for even more hits! :razz:

"Could this be confusing? Is this inconsistent? Yeah"

   OK, so the OS4 team lead *actually agrees* on the confusion and inconsistency? Interesting!

"but nobody cares."

   Nobody?

"The only people who do care are the hard core Amiga guys."

   And that's "nobody" in OS4 team leads eyes? Remember when *you guys* were "hard core Amiga guys"? You came from this background as well, didn't you?

"The hard core Amiga guys have made up their minds already so there is no point in pandering to them."

   So if you can't take the hard core Amiga guy's dollars, then their views doesn't matter and they should actively be ignored?

"We need to think outside this microcosm."

   Yes, because it's not the "hard core Amiga guys" that is the *only* potential buyers of $3,000+ computer systems of 2005 level performance with an OS that can't really be used for anything serious by 2013 standards, not even browsing the web in a decent manner, with missing or semi-functional drivers, for the joy of having a boing ball on the "custom case". No, it's not them, it's everyone else! And it will happen as soon as they can google "Amigaone A5000", this "A" is the key to everything!

"After reading "Commodore: A Company on the Edge" recently I'm quite sure Jack Tramiel wouldn't think twice about using the A5000 label because his focus was always on selling more units which is the primary objective here as well."

   Yeah, like he would ever go anywhere near the nemo/cyrus/whatever. Especially if he as you say (and the OS4 team lead seem to know) was only interested in selling more products. The X1000 is an impossible product; had Jack Tramiel been around and heard of a plan to create a computer with performance that's *eight years* behind the current market, then it would never have even entered the design phase, the idea would have been put in the trash as soon as it would have been pronounced, and the one coming up with the idea would probably be sent to a doctor for a brain examination.

Nice touch by the OS4 team lead there BTW, connecting Jack Tramiel to all this to create a subliminal image that they are "in a team" with him. "Do what Jack Tramiel would have done, vote for "A5000" because then we will sell more units outside this microcosm to non-hardcore Amiga guys"! Hey, I know! They should create a website where they list the names of all the old Amiga legends, and in the same list they should write their own names as well! Carl Sassenrath, David Haynie, Steven Solie, Steffen Häuser, etc! On the same page, in the same list! What? They already did that on amigaos.net? Good, very justified, because surely Dave Haynie would really have loved their HW path, and Carl Sassenrath would really have loved what they did to the OS. And maybe they will sell more units outside the "microcosm", who knows? I mean, it's all about search engines and association with well known stuff ("Dave Haynie", "Amiga A5000", etc, maybe they can throw in some "AAA" somewhere as well?), and not about real, viable, marketable products, right?

[takemehomegrandma]

Btw Solie's reasoning to get more sales is not going to work in reality. Amiga 500 was the best selling Amiga model but how many sales A-Cube had with AmigaOne 500?

Very good point!

This AmigaOne A5000 is based on broken idea that there is large audience googling and waiting for new Amigas to come. They could call it Amiga 500 and it still wouldnt sell any better. But Solie is a prisoner of Amiga name and cant let it go from his mind.

Exactly. He and a few others seem to live in an alternative reality, that's for sure.

I guess it helps by staying inside the high walls of Amigans.net where "broken ideas" are carefully cultivated by everyone inside and protected by the gate keepers and the moderators. Keep influenses from the outside shielded off carefully enough, and you will soon have reached the collective inbred mindsets that's required to make 2005 level HW at $3,000 with a slapped-on "A3000" sticker seem like a good idea in 2013, and a plan for world domination.

:lol:

In five years MorphOS has acquired over 2000 registrations. AROS has established a core group on Raspberry Pi and PC world. Amiga veterans still remember short lived Amithlon. Natami had great following.You dont need amiga name if you can make your product right.

I guess it's easy when you have the product, but if you don't...?

[takemehomegrandma]

Heh. Funny how most of the noise in regards to the naming of these new machines is made by people who aren't going to buy one.
For people who aren't interested in OS4, they sure spend a lot of time thinking and talking about it.

Personally I think pretty much everything to do with it is a farce, but I rarely feel the urge to worry so much about what others choose to spend their time and money on. Id rather focus on what I am interested in.

To each their own I guess.

Sigh! :rolleyes: You are completely missing the point here...

This is not about the new machine per se, it's about the behavior and ethics of the people behind it.

If someone would start selling refurbished PowerMac G5's with MorphOS as "A3000", "A4000", "A5000" etc, then you could bet your left hand that you wold see a similar response, no matter if people would like to buy one or not. Why? Becayse that "A" naming scheme (no matter the number) is de-facto "reserved" for real Amigas/Classics. It's really that simple, and selling G5 Mac's with MorphOS under those kind of names would be parasiting on the classic legacy and glory. It's really as simple as that! And while that thought has surely passed the minds of people at (for example) Elbox, Genesi, Individual Computing, Acube etc, no-one has ever done that. Why? I mean, maybe you would get a somewhat increased number of search hits just like "ssolie" said in the quoted post above, right (a laughable thought, but anyway)?

Well, nobody has done it because most people have a moral compass built in, telling them that this would be *wrong*. It would generate animosity and badwill. They *know* they shouldn't market something as "A3000" or "A5000" because it would infringe on the classic legacy! Most people can *feel* it's wrong!

But then we have people like "ssolie", who doesn't have that compass built in, who realizes that the "hard core Amiga guys" won't buy their product anyway so A-eon/Hyperion shouldn't "give in to them", the hard core Amiga guys are "nobody" and A-eon/Hyperion shouldn't listen to their feelings about this.

Ssolie believes that parasite marketing on the classic glory will be the path to world domination for OS4 because it will bring more search hits on google, not from "hard core Amiga guys" (who he explicitly doesn't care about judging from the quote of his post above, since he won't get their dollars), but from people "outside this microcosm". That's why he thinks it's *right* to p!ss all over the Amiga legacy by using the "A" naming scheme, because suddenly everyone and his dog will find out about it on google and buy these $3000 PPC systems with OS4 on. Again - As he said above he is perfectly aware that the "hard core Amiga guys" will get upset by this, he must feel this because after all he comes from the Amiga background as well, but since the hardcore Amiga guys are "nobody" and won't buy his products anyway, he believes it's right to *ignore* them!

*THIS* is what this thread is about. The mindset and lack of moral compass of the people behind the machine. It's obviously *NOT* about "jealousy" (a ridiculous thought actually) or "noise coming from people who aren't going to buy one anyway".

[takemehomegrandma]

But not "A" + number. We all know what this means and Steve Solie admitted that it would be intentionally and they would anger a lot of people in the community. Why doing that when you know that potential customers will dislike it? Or does he seriously think AmigaOS has a chance outside the hardcore amigians? I do not think so. Why not just avoiding that and using "X" (or T or V or whatelse)?

I'm not saying that using "A" is right, just that "A" often has been used by a lot of companies, without anyone taking much notice.

Please give a lot of examples of companies in the Amiga world that has often been using "A" + number as their naming scheme for their products?

:confused:

[takemehomegrandma]

Yes. I just tried typing all of the various Amiga models in to google, using the "A" prefix instead of "Amiga," and only A600 and A1200 brought up any mention of the Amiga. All of the searches returned plenty of computers, phones, tablets, cameras, etc. The first page of A500 not only didn't mention Amiga, but did list the A500 road in Staffordshire and Cheshire, England.

That's simply because in the real world (outside ssolie's imagination), the Amiga hasn't been relevant for at least a decade and a half. And that's also why ssolie's idea that this "A + number" naming scheme would be key for world domination outside "this little microcosm" is *so terribly broken*! Nobody outside knows what to search for, they are clueless about "A5000", and had they known, then they could have searched for anything else as well (like "X2000").

Inside this "microcosm" however (can't we just call it Amiga community instead?), the "A + number" naming convention is well known, all the "hardcore Amiga guys" here knows perfectly well what it stands for and we don't need to use google for telling us that. Ssolie knows very well that hardcore Amiga guys may get upset and/or confused with this infringement on the de-facto naming convention of real/classic Amigas. He has openly acknowledged this (after all, he comes from this background himself so he can probably just "feel it" instinctively), just as he acknowledged that they *shouldn't care about it*, since the hardcore Amiga guys have already made up their mind and they won't buy the product anyway. So their feelings and opinions should be ignored and they should simply run them over and aim outside the "microcosm" by naming the product with something that will generate truckloads of hits for *general* people using google. (Now is a good time to re-read the quote I made at the top of this post! :rolleyes:)

The plan:

• P!ss off/confuse "hardcore Amiga guys" inside this "microcosm" by deliberately infringing on the general de-facto naming convention for real/classic Amiga computers ("it doesn't matter since they won't be buying it anyway").
• Aim for world domination outside this microcosm instead by using the "A + number" naming convention that doesn't mean jack sh!t to anyone outside (only inside), hence it will be kind of meaningless on google.

:rolleyes:

Honestly, this is way too much fuss over one letter. This thread has been going on for three weeks now which far exceeds the impact that any naming scheme will have.

You are of course just as entitled to your opinion as anyone else is. IMHO though, this could stain the product for its *entire life time*, which is by far longer than three weeks. What could have been something positive and nice here – a new machine announced – is turning into something else, where they try to score cheap, short term parasitic marketing points on the Amiga legacy and glory, when it had been so simple just to give the product its own name by following *their own* naming convention "X + number". Let it stand on it's own merits (and the merits of its predecessor, the "X1000")! It would have made better sense in so many ways!

It's encouraging though to see that *practically everyone* (on every forum where this is being discussed) comes with truckloads of suggestions using *anything else* than "A" (you and ssolie are among the few going against the stream). I'd say that most people feel a bit like I do, that it's simply wrong to infringe on the real/classic Amiga de-facto naming convention. It's less encouraging however to see that the polling is not taking place in the open, but behind closed doors. Then it's easy to claim that whatever decision you make, "there was a clear majority behind it".

[takemehomegrandma]

Here's a few:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=724
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/download_photos/gvp1230-iibox1.jpg
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/mtec1200
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=6

Thank you for proving my point; those are all accessories for real/classic Amiga's, and "A's" do definitely belong here (although some have other names as well, which is also fine of course). And they are all accessories or peripheral equipment to existing real/classic Amiga computers, not new non-classic computers claiming a brand new "A" model number for itself.

Acer have an A500 tablet. Or is it Asus? Yes Asus. Their a company in the same world as the Amiga.

Frankly I have no idea what you tried to say there, I think you may be confused. If so, sorry about that. Or maybe you just didn't follow the discussion...?