Evert Carton leaves Hyperion

[Iggy]

Says the MorphOS representative with a habit of spamming OS4 related threads in a blatant attempt at promoting his own product, at least when Hyperion Reps / developers
were active on the forums they usually stuck with discussing their own stuff and were not obsessed with nitpicking and at undermining others.

You've obviously missed a lot of posts from Ben Hermans. Harry has every reason to be offended by Hyperion's executive's past statements.

[Iggy]

Yep, some have been adding 2 plus 2 to make 5 while others have come up with conspiracy theories that would make Oliver Stone shiver.  

There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim.
As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false.
Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas.

This is not a conspiracy, it is an act of fraud.

[Iggy]

So is there any reason why a certain Judge couldn't work this all out?  I mean, any other reason other than you being wrong that is?

So Darrin, why do you think Amiga Inc. decided to forgo a judges decision and agree to a settlement with Hyperion?
Because it was mutually beneficial to both of them. Bill gets to continue to pretend that he owns something (granting licenses to something that he himself was only a licensee of).
And Hyperion solidifies its claim to the development of AOS by mutually agreeing that AInc. owns 3.1.

But where is the original transfer of that property to AInc?
Simple, it doesn't exist.
Prove me wrong.
You can't. Amiga Inc is a sham. It owns nothing. The only thing it could have acquired from past corporations is what Amino originally purchased, a license to use a trademark.

[Iggy]

"There's no real conspiracy here. Just a lot of BS. Bill MCEwen and Hyperion have managed to lay claim to ownership of AmigaOS and have many of you convinced that this is a valid claim. As AmigaInc. licensed trademarks from Gateway, not intellectual property this claim is patently false. Gateway clearly stated that they continued to own said properties.
Again, AInc is a licensee of trademarks NOT the owner of any of the intellectual properties involved in the original Amigas."
 
This is one of the major reasons why anyone claiming to own amiga ip or amiga os especially is a flat out fraud. Gateway never released the ownership of amiga ip, simply liscenced its use to other parties.
 
This is why I say anyone who wants to distribute amiga os roms, or amiga os disks even, is free to do so. Gateway could care less.
 
Silly Billy and every other amiga grave robber would like you to think differently, but that is fraud, not real. They always play this game when someone asks them to prove ownership of amiga ip like "I won't prove I do own it, you prove I don't." Its ridiculous.
 
In regard to Evert, Good luck with all your future endeavors. Maybe he'll go back to Linux ports?

Steven

Thanks Steven,
For once we agree on something. And you're absolutely right. No one currently using the Amiga name actually owns anything but the right to use a trademark, because the company that bought the assets originally did not transfer them. They merly made a few licensing agreements on the trademarks.
That's what Bill owns, a company callew Amiga Inc that can use that trademark.
I'm not even sure he's legally allowed to transfer that right.

And he certainly isn't going to show any of us the original documents.

Frankly, I consider Bill McEwen to be a corporate necrophiliac.

[Iggy]

Hmmm... this thread was supposed to be about poor wee Everton Carbuncles retirement from he/her/its/whats job or whatever at Hyperactive... :confused:

So how did the subject get onto AmigaSTIncK and copymerights/IPees and all that malarky !!!

It's dark in here... I'm going to hard boil one of me chocolate easter eggs... now where did I leave those matches...

You're absolutely right Franko. We're all supposed to be bidding a fond farewell to one of Hyperion's founders and original principal players.

I should leave this to another thread (or leave it entirely). It just upsets the faithful who keep thinking there's going to be some kind of resurrection.

I'm glad you've got the sense to know what an Amiga is (since you own a few).

[Iggy]

The only thing Acer has is the hardware patents which the vast majority (if not all) have expired.  Trademarks, logos, copyrights went to Amiga Inc along with Amiga inventory.

Actually, the article while informative (sort of) still gives us no clear idea who owns the OS.
It clearly does not mention anything other than trademarks being transferred to Amino. and it only mentions patents as being retained by Gasteway.
This leaves the status of the OS as an unknown.
And, as I've mentioned before, Amiga Inc. has never produced any documentation proving they own the OS.


BTW - I too am sorry about the off topic comments (although they are more relevant than alternative uses for mint jelly).

[Iggy]

Although a matter of curiosity for most, they could/would not supply proof to developers who required that proof either.

Jens Schoenfeld is one example from April 2007:

"Bill McEwen, who hasn't been able to give any proof of ownership of the classic Amiga OS in the past 20 months, who wanted to send me contracts "by the end of the week" (that was in february),"

This is a pretty typical response btw.

Also there is a war going on between John Grzymala, Chief Financial Officer and Controller of Hakia, Inc . and also  acting on behalf of the Kouri Family Trust vs McEwen, and that should surely be obvious to all at this point, since Itec is the first secured creditor of Amiga Inc.
 
"Garry: Itec has been an investor in Amiga since the purchase of the assets from Gateway. It remains an investor today. Itec is also the Senior (first place) Secured Creditor of Amiga Inc."

That complicates the speculation, since even if you determine Amiga Inc. owns something, then you have to discover which entity within Amiga Inc. you are talking about.

Oh the irony of the Pluritas site (supposedly selling the AI assets) being listed by google as "compromised". They touched Amiga Inc., and compromise should be expected. Heh.

#6

Thanks 6,
This tends to reinforce my doubts that AInc. actual owns the property. And as far as licenses for patents are concerned, the OS is not patented it is a property.

The patents are irrelevant as they have expired and AInc has never offered proof of the contention that they licensed these either.

And does anyone know what Pluritas is selling? The only asset I am 100% sure of (outside of the trademarks) is AmigaDE, and that is not a particularly valuable asset.

[Iggy]

There's a very simple way to find out who actually own the rights to Amiga kickstart/OS etc...

Put the WorkBench disk images and the KickStart ROM image files up on a website for free download...

Then simply wait for whomever claims to own them to take the appropriate legal action and actually pursue it all the way to a court of law...

I've already done this and not once did I get a genuine complaint from anyone claiming to own the Kickstart ROM Images or WorkBench Disk Sets, the only complaints I got were from the dickhead copyright mafia on forums such as this screaming blue murder about piracy... :lol:

I'd personally bet my house on the fact that even if someone emerged from the shadows claiming to own the Copyright/IP on these things and they were challenged in a court of law that none of the claims would either be able to be proven nor have any legal basis on which to stand...

Trouble is certain folks in Amigaland are nothing but a bunch of big fearties who cower like chickens when it comes to proving and putting an end to all this BS/ speculation & myths surrounding just who has a legal claim to what when it comes to the Amiga...

Brilliant idea Franko.
It would require someone willing to stand up to a legal challenge, but it could help resolve this matter.
This idea deserves a thread of its own, possibly sticky.

Moved further posts to:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=633719#post633719

[Iggy]

I'm up for it...

Never had anyone (including the British Government) that has challenged me on something "legal" and who didn't back down before it went to court cos they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on...

Trouble is for such a thing to get noticed properly you need the copyright mafia to stop their pathetic whining and demand that any links to my site be removed cos it may damage Amiga.org...

It needs as much exposure as possible for anyone who thinks they can genuinely claim to own these rights to notice it and take the appropriate action if they think they can prove it legally...

It's the whiners/ know alls and crapbags that need to keep their gobs shut and then maybe, just maybe the good folks of Amigaland can put an end to all this nonsense once and for all...

Please consider it.
While I wholly back Hyperion's right to market AOS4, I'm beginning to believe that previous versions of AmigaOS may not have a valid owner.

[Iggy]

That is not possible. People might dispute who owns it, but the fact is that somebody owns it.

An interesting point. Are the ownership rights to a piece of software perpetual? And can software owned by a defunct company be transferred legally without consideration of any debts the company may carry?

There's a fine line between who the IP belongs to and whom fanatics feverently hope it belongs to (or wish it belongs to or believe it belongs to).  Who owns AmigaOS?  I myself don't give a fig; it isn't like we're talking about the sources to Windows 7 or a videotape copy of The Day the Clown Cried.  Odds are there's something locked up in a filing cabinet somewhere in the offices occupied by whomever succeeded Gateway (Acer, was it?) and nearly 20 years down the pike with no substantive improvements over the C= produced OS (the PD bundles of 3.5 and 3.9 aside...) they likely don't care.

Acer may or may not have documentation. If the patents are no longer valid and AOS was never properly acquired by Escom or Gateway then it doesn't really matter.
I doubt Acer wants any part of this controversy.

[Iggy]

Do you understand how bankruptcy works?

Far better then most people. And once a company's assets are liqidated and all debts are discharged they cease  to exist.
Therefore, if is not possible for a former official to sign a valid contract transferring intellectual property two years after bankruptcy.
Such an act would constitute fraud.

[Iggy]

In amiga circles, I believe "fraud" is usually phrased as "marketing strategy"

Ha! At least we all have our sense of humor!

The contracts were signed to correct an oversight that occurred during the original transfer of assets.

Three years after the principal party (which was not a part of these contracts) was dissolved.
Interesting concept.
But still not valid.

[Iggy]

Iggy,

You are making a lot of statements about what is and is not "valid", or what constitutes "fraud" and such, what are you going to do about it?  Are you so sure about your claims that you are willing to do anything about it, or are you just stirring the pot and trying to get a rise out of some people (in response to the allegations that were made about the legality of MorphOS)?

As you know, I am an avid MorphOS supporter, but I can't see anything good coming out of your statements and assumptions that you are stating as facts.  Prove your statements in court, or think again about what your motives are for this thread and also think about what outcome you expect to happen by starting threads like this one.

I support you on many other ideas and threads, but not this one.

I'm sorry for dredging this whole matter up again David.
But I don't see this as speculative, more as unaddressed facts.
I would love to see it challenged in a court, but it never will be because no one would stand to profit from a real examination of these issues.
I wouldn't mind being the object of a libel or slander suit just to bring this matter to a court.
And I shouldn't bring MorphOS into this matter, but Dave Haynie's recent comments give us an interesting insight into the minds of those that support the "real" Amiga OS.

And I understand your concern. In the past I've always voiced support for all NG OS'. It was not my intention to increase the level of animosity between red and blue camps. Rather, I just wanted to point out that the validity of the "real" Amiga market was less credible then our own.

[Iggy]

Even after this thread being up for days, I still read it as, "Every Cartoon leaves Hyperion" which STILL makes me laugh. I need serious psych help...:roflmao:

PS-  Just started using Chrome.  It is so much faster then Exploer even the smiley anims move faster!!!:laughing:

Thanks! That is funny. And I've already got psych help (for all the good it does).
Oh, and I apologize for turning Evert's retirement thread into a diatribe about IP rights.