I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......

[gary_c]

Moobunny is just another place for spam. and insults flying!

Well, to its credit, Moobunny, as an essentially unmoderated forum, lets people say what they want and lets threads run until nobody's interested anymore. Of course you have to put up with the bad to get the good, but I like the fact that no heavy-handed moderators stop conversations because they don't happen to like the tone or whatever.

You're right that the freedom leads to abuse for some immature people. On the other hand, there are good conversations there, with people who know what they're talking about. This ebbs and flows, like at other places.

I think the best way to summarize the Moobunny character is "skeptical." There's little patience with "fans" of whatever persuasion, if they don't have a rational basis for their enthusiasm.

I think bbrv posts at Moobunny because, once you get past the frothing of immature jerks, there is a core of intelligent and articulate people frequenting the place. That's my take, anyway. And compared to some other sites, he hasn't been confronted by pages of posts by people wishing him to die, give up the computing business, improve his sex life, and other nicities. Of course he draws these guys like a magnet. Once he refers to any subset as "morons" or "idiots," a whole bunch of people rise up to a) take offense, and b) by responding with even lower, braindead insults, prove his words well-chosen. Not the way for a company president to act? Maybe not, but at least he's been involved and in touch, which is a lot better than how that other CEO has handled things. I wouldn't say things the way bbrv says them, either. But I'm also not on the receiving end of what he and Genesi have had to put up with every since introducing products in this market.

-- gary_c

[gary_c]

rayt wrote:

If thats true, why dont they simply get a license for Os4 like they originally intented to do?

As I understand it, to get the license Genesi would have to meet demands by Amiga, Inc. that they thought were unreasonable. I heard that Amiga said they would only allow AOS on the Pegasos if it was sold without MorphOS. I can't remember where I heard this, though, so take it with a big grain of salt.

But my guess is if it were a simple matter to just pay a license fee, then that might have happened already, or at least you'd hear noises about it being a future prospect. People don't usually let  dealing with unsavory characters stand in the way of making money (and I mean this both directions, from the perspectives of the companies involved here). But keep in mind who has a vested interest in the status quo and who would get burned if the Pegasos could be bought with AOS. At least one of the principals in the Amiga triad would get badly hurt, and could probably stop any port of AOS in the present situation.

Another factor motivating bbrv could be the idea that the current Amiga, Inc. management just deserves to go down, something many people believe, it seems. Reading Bill McEwen's statements in the court documents, it's hard for me to figure how the guy could ever be taken seriously. He has only a slim grasp of the facts even of his own company, and demonstrates an amazingly flippant attitude considering the situation he's in. Apparently investors and would-be business partners have gotten the same impression. I agree that there are probably egos at least somewhat in the way on both sides, but after hearing how various people have been rebuffed by Amiga management when trying to do business, it isn't at all surprising to me that Genesi never reached an agreement with them about AOS on Pegasos.

-- gary_c  

[gary_c]

As i said, force

Hmm. "Force" Hyperion to sign a license with Genesi rather than Amiga, Inc. but under better terms. "Force" Eyetech to consider a much better board deal than they have now. "Force" AmigaOS customers to pay less for functionally the same thing than they have available with the AI arrangement. Doesn't really sound all that bad to me.

The bitter taste for some, of course, is that it's Bill Buck at the controls, but are we discussing personalities, or technology and business?

-- gary_c

[gary_c]

Better terms? thats purely speculative.
Better board deal...the same
Pay less fo the same funtionality still pure speculation.

Of course; all any of us can do is speculate based on what we've read or heard. Works the same for all sides.

That Bill Buck intends to thereby remove choice and competition from the market for both consumers and the companies involved is fact.

People who want AmigaOS on PPC have exactly one hardware choice now, so that won't change. Hyperion has exactly one motherboard for AOS right now, so that won't change. How do you see choice being reduced? The only changes are that Amiga, Inc. is out of the equation, but it more or less deserves to be, in the opinion of many people. And that the Teron board gets replaced by a Pegasos. Are Amiga fans really all that excited about MAI Teron boards that much already? People criticized Genesi for "splitting the market." Now, with this idea that the market is consolidated, they're going to get criticized for that, too? Strange (and illogical) that some people feel they're right complaining about it both ways.

Nor is he "working with the community" as he so often likes to tout.

Well, if you realized the cost of all of those subsidized and free boards, all the traveling to shows, etc. that now the company is even getting flamed for (for some reason), you might reconsider that. Apart from the fact that there are winners and losers in the business world and Amiga, Inc. seems destined to join the losers, I don't think Genesi has really failed to work with elements of the community, as a rule. Please be more specific, if you want to pursue this point.

From the word go he could have lisenced OS4 for the pegasos gotten it certified

From what I understand, this was not a realistic possibility given the conditions Amiga, Inc. wanted to place on Genesi, involving Genesi's internal information and so on.

The same holds true for a significant portion of the community

Well, I don't know how well you can speak for others. In any case, the number of people who want to boycott Genesi for personality reasons is no doubt very small compared to the potential market including both "amiga" and areas beyond such as Linux and embedded systems and so on. So I don't think anyone's going to be losing sleep over these guys. I know I wouldn't, nor would anyone else trying to run a business.

this is just another way the community will be hurt.

Sorry, but I think you're projecting your emotionalism. A market is rarely hurt by a better product at lower cost. Buyouts and consolidations happen. Companies grabbing market share happens. The benefit or harm to the consumer depends on the product details and support details. I know for a fact that Genesi has been very supportive of developers, insofar as conditions allow. But the negative attitude of people such as yourself is a distraction. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying Genesi doesn't need to sharpen up its management and Bill Buck couldn't use a little more diplomacy and forethought in his dealings with people at times. But consider the flames he's had to face ever since deciding to dare market a product on hallowed Amiga, Inc. territory. Most people, certainly less hard ones, would have given up long ago. Now think about "fewer choices": an Amiga market led by severely indebted and essentially dead Amiga, Inc.(and don't blame Genesi's lawyers for that -- the facts of the timing don't support that claim), dependent for hardware on outsiders who have nothing to do with the market traditionally and are considered by many to have basic technical flaws in their products etc etc. That'd be a sad state.

I heard a rumour that Gary Hare was taking over as CEO of Genesi, so perhaps there is hope.

Well, rumor has it he would have been good for Amiga; unfortunately he had a look around and realized the futility there. I imagine he'd be a valuable addition at Genesi as well.

-- gary_c

[gary_c]

but as fate would have it, my account got timed out

That drives me crazy too, sometimes. Sometimes I do a select-all and copy just in case the session times out or the browser crashes, if I'm working on something long.

This proposed action directly affects the 1000+ people that have already purchased an AmigaOne, they will be denied AOS4 if Bill Bucks plan comes to pass.

I must have missed where Bill Buck said that. Could you give us the URL please.

Yeah, this is a business decision, just goes to show he does not care a whit about what we want

About what who wants? Demand is running ahead of supply of Pegasos boards, so that shows some of "us" are getting products they want. If his description of future events is correct, people will still be getting AOS4 on PPC. I still don't know who you're speaking for exactly. Obviously if someone wants a Bill McEwen and Fleecy certified product or a Teron board, they'll be out of luck. Otherwise, I don't see a problem.

he is interested only in what appears to be a personal vendetta and lining his own pockets.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's something personal involved, given the background of Amiga, Inc.'s claims about MorphOS, etc. As for lining his pockets, I'm sure that'd get a laugh at his place, about just what year he'll start seeing a personal return on what's been spent so far. If a person with money has the goal of making even more money, there sure are a lot easier and more predictable ways of doing it than trying to bootstrap a new computer platform, wouldn't you agree?

-- gary_c