Wither Natami?

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cicero790 wrote:
Quote:
Not really sure what you mean, here... you can run AROS in a VM already or uses the Hosted version (which will be faster than an VM).
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Well I meant the other way around. AROS running windows in a box.

But that's the wrong way around :-) AROS can't use the hardware as effectivly as Windows... so why not let the Windows side do all the hard work... and worse, if a prorgam crashes in AROS... the whole system goes down... including the Windows VM...

Quote:
The Amiga space is gone.
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You have really a pitch black view on the state of things.

I'm only ever trying to be relaistic. That is why 10 years ago I decided to get behind AROS. And why now I think we need to think about the strengths of what we actually have with AROS... instead of trying to shoehorn it into something it's not going to be very good at.

If you don't stay realistic, then you will destroy the project.

But I am thankful despite this, that you brought AROS to life. Thank you.

I am only a small part of a huge number of people who have made AROS possible, you should also thank the MOS team, they have also contributed to the project.

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Ok Amigadave, I kind of like you. I like your enthusiasm and dedication to the cause... but you are being a prick now.

Let me tell you a story... back in 2004/2005 I also has some half baked about adding Memory protection. Fortunately Piru used to frequent the AROS IRC channel around the same time... I would present my ideas to the channel and the clever guys there would explain the flaws in my thinking... OK... I would think, I'll prove them wrong, I would take the AROS sources and try my idea out as best I could... That is the coolest thing about AROS, you can just try an idea out and see how it works... and you know what, Piru and the other guys on there were always right.

You, and Hans et al can keep arguing with Piru, but if you are not prepared to try your idea out and prove that it doesn't work, I have no time for you.

Hans clearly is an intelligent chap with coding experience, and it really pisses me off that he would rather argue a point he doesn't understand rather than actually try the idea out and prove it.

I refer back to an argument Karlos and I had on this very forum, he suggested one way to do something I suggested another... To prove Karlos wrong I tried his idea out... turns out he was right.

Don't just stand there and shout it, do something about it!!!!!

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the_leander wrote:

bloodline wrote:
To prove Karlos wrong

See, this is where you failed - Karlos is a true genius, basically, if he says something is or isn't possible, take him at his word, whilst not infalable, this curry powered megabrain is right a damn sight more often then not  :-D  :lol:

Well, both our ideas would have worked, but his was much simpler... so I tried his idea first... and he was right, so I just conceded defeat :-D

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the_leander wrote:

kolla wrote:

I am Britsh, not European.

And since when is Britain not in Europe?
Sorry, but if you are "Britsh", you are also European :-)

Since when has having political ties or even agreement with a group of countries to form a union require a change of nationality? By your reasoning I would also be Irish, Scottish and Welsh. Hell given all the close nit ties with the US are you going to call me a Yank as well???

But I am none of those. I am just plain old British.

I happen to be British also, and I too would perfer to not be refered to as European... because I'm not.

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the_leander wrote:

utri007 wrote:
But natami needs to get rid of original amiga kickstarts

Ain't that the truth, then again, removing all tainted IP should be a priority, I can't see A Inc being any more friendly with the NatAmi then they were with Amithlon.

If only Bernie had used AROS in Amithlon, then he wouldn't have needed to go near Amiga Inc... but in the end it wasn't Ainc that killed Amithlon (since he could have gone the AmigaForever route)... it was H&P that killed it.

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the_leander wrote:

utri007 wrote:
Here in amiga.org are some people who could have great help to this project.

Aros project, kickstart replacement is now really important, natami with reverse engineered kickstart would be free of amiga curse

It'd be interesting to see just how well Amiga apps ran under a NatAmi running Aros. I know there is source compatability, but if it's running on a 68k, would it offer binary compatability also?

Anyone?

Yes, that's right :-)

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Firedawg wrote:
@the_leander

Your debate with amigadave on this thread is most interesting as in explaining the obvious current market and economics woes of the very small Amiga community and those that are trying very hard to support it.

I have to agree, this is probably the first time I've seen an honest debate as to what is really going on, and where the Amiga is actually at.

But, what is most interesting that you would make a statement as quoted above and expose your own ignorance into something apparently you have little belief or knowledge about. I would suggest Sir that you remain on topic of this thread and take keep your comments concerning others religious beliefs to the General Chat forum under Philosophy and Religion. There you can discuss your statements freely.  

I need to jump in here!!! The_leander was not refering to any religous belief, he was refering to an ironically titled member of this board called "Atheist", who despite his promising sounding nickname has a zealoted devotion to the religion of AmigaOS4/AmigaONE...

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the_leander wrote:

bloodline wrote:

If only Bernie had used AROS in Amithlon, then he wouldn't have needed to go near Amiga Inc... but in the end it wasn't Ainc that killed Amithlon (since he could have gone the AmigaForever route)... it was H&P that killed it.

I stand corrected.

But yeah, that would have been an ideal marriage.

Btw, since you're on, whats the deal with binary compatability with Amiga apps when running AROS in a 68k environment?

--edit--

Nevermind, you just answered hehehe.

Another question then, how complete is AROS in this sort of mode, ie, if it were running on either a real amiga or something like a NatAmi, how close to complete is it in terms of a full replacement to AOS3.1?

The 68k branch is so stale now.. it would take a bit of work for someone to bring it up to date with the mainline... Though I guess the big issues would be around bootstrapping and drivers... the problem is there are so few 68k linux machines to allow easy development :-(

The bounty for the 68k port is large thoguh so perhaps someone would like to have a look... :-)

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CodeSmith wrote:
I'm not up with the politics over at AROSland, so I'd like to know: what does the closing of the TeamAROS site mean?  is it a portal like this site (meaning that the closing sucks, but it's not a dent in the big picture), or more of an important hub?  I've also heard that some important AROS core devs have decided to call it quits following this, so all AROS development moving on will be x86 only.  Is this true?

Really it's just changed hands. All of the TeamAROS bounties have transfered to Power2People. Business as usual really... though we won't have Dammy nagging us to support the bounties :-(

No devs have quit because of this. And AROS has two primary branches now... with PPC and x86 being actively maintained...

Anyone want to get back into 68k Dev work?

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pixie wrote:

I happen to be British also, and I too would perfer to not be refered to as European... because I'm not.

On denial? :roll: What would you be, American? Asian, Afro?

Well... no because I'm British... though I wouldn't mind being German :-)

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the_leander wrote:

bloodline wrote:


The 68k branch is so stale now.. it would take a bit of work for someone to bring it up to date with the mainline... Though I guess the big issues would be around bootstrapping and drivers... the problem is there are so few 68k linux machines to allow easy development :-(

Could you not use the debian port to the amiga running under UAE? Or is that even more hidious a concept then it sounds in my head?

I have no idea... At the moment our best bet is Bernd Roesch, who builds AFA (where he backports parts of AROS to AmigaOS, so as to bring the advanced features of AROS to 68K machines)... this is one of the more interesting things going on in the Amiga world right now IMHO...

bloodline wrote:
The bounty for the 68k port is large thoguh so perhaps someone would like to have a look... :-)

Maybe the NatAmi could offer a fresh incentive, same goes for the Minimig I would imagine.

I would hope so... but the AmigaOS ROMs are so easy to come by... and the only real users of MiniMig are Amiga Owners who already have Amiga ROMs... the drive just isn't there...

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Atheist wrote:
Okay, lets examine the differences:

Amithlon. No ECS/OCS/AGA emulation.

UAE/AmigaForever: No AGA

Ok... Which part of UAE has no AGA emulation?

I wish you wouldn't sprout rubbish.

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CodeSmith wrote:
@Atheist

Um, Gunnar has said many times that "cycle exact" is meaningless when applied to the amiga.  There are too many permutations of CPU and chipset, so most Amiga software makes allowances for it.

Don't be stupid...

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Atheist wrote:
Hi bloodline,

Last time I looked into AmigaForever, they said they were working on AGA and it was available but not reliable yet.

Thought they gave up on AGA as it was too taxing on PCs.

Then the last time you looked must have been in 2002...

AGA isn't taxing, it is only a very small improvement over ECS... The big problem with AGA is that it was a massive kludge and was poorly documented compared to the very well known OCS.

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Atheist wrote:

bloodline wrote:

Then the last time you looked must have been in 2002...

AGA isn't taxing, it is only a very small improvement over ECS... The big problem with AGA is that it was a massive kludge and was poorly documented compared to the very well known OCS.

Hi bloodline,

256 colours of 16 million over 32 and 32 more shades of the first 32 from 4096 in extra half bright mode is "only a very small improvement"?


You'd make a TERRIFIC supervisor. "What? Only three levels of the pyramid built this month? Heads are gonna roll!"

Yes... AGA only requires 2 extra bits in the bit planes... And 3 extra bits in the palette table to achieve the extra colours...

The sprite hardware had a bit of an overhaul and a burst mode was added to Alice... The AGA chipset was a pathetic upgrade... Especially compared to what the PC gfx chip vendors were making at the time!!!!

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JJ wrote:
Just add to the whole british/european thing.  TBH I do take things one step futher.  I am Welsh, not British  :lol:  :-D

Well, my mother is Welsh and my father English... So I think that puts me firmly in the British camp