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Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #254 from previous page: August 08, 2008, 10:25:52 AM »
Quote

the_leander wrote:
Quote

utri007 wrote:
Here in amiga.org are some people who could have great help to this project.

Aros project, kickstart replacement is now really important, natami with reverse engineered kickstart would be free of amiga curse ;)


It'd be interesting to see just how well Amiga apps ran under a NatAmi running Aros. I know there is source compatability, but if it's running on a 68k, would it offer binary compatability also?

Anyone?


Yes, that's right :-)

Offline the_leander

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #255 on: August 08, 2008, 10:28:27 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

If only Bernie had used AROS in Amithlon, then he wouldn't have needed to go near Amiga Inc... but in the end it wasn't Ainc that killed Amithlon (since he could have gone the AmigaForever route)... it was H&P that killed it.


I stand corrected.

But yeah, that would have been an ideal marriage.

Btw, since you're on, whats the deal with binary compatability with Amiga apps when running AROS in a 68k environment?

--edit--

Nevermind, you just answered hehehe.

Another question then, how complete is AROS in this sort of mode, ie, if it were running on either a real amiga or something like a NatAmi, how close to complete is it in terms of a full replacement to AOS3.1?

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Offline CodeSmith

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #256 on: August 08, 2008, 10:32:51 AM »
I'm not up with the politics over at AROSland, so I'd like to know: what does the closing of the TeamAROS site mean?  is it a portal like this site (meaning that the closing sucks, but it's not a dent in the big picture), or more of an important hub?  I've also heard that some important AROS core devs have decided to call it quits following this, so all AROS development moving on will be x86 only.  Is this true?
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #257 on: August 08, 2008, 10:34:10 AM »
Quote

Firedawg wrote:
@the_leander

Your debate with amigadave on this thread is most interesting as in explaining the obvious current market and economics woes of the very small Amiga community and those that are trying very hard to support it.


I have to agree, this is probably the first time I've seen an honest debate as to what is really going on, and where the Amiga is actually at.

Quote

But, what is most interesting that you would make a statement as quoted above and expose your own ignorance into something apparently you have little belief or knowledge about. I would suggest Sir that you remain on topic of this thread and take keep your comments concerning others religious beliefs to the General Chat forum under Philosophy and Religion. There you can discuss your statements freely.  


I need to jump in here!!! The_leander was not refering to any religous belief, he was refering to an ironically titled member of this board called "Atheist", who despite his promising sounding nickname has a zealoted devotion to the religion of AmigaOS4/AmigaONE...


Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #258 on: August 08, 2008, 10:37:25 AM »
Quote

the_leander wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

If only Bernie had used AROS in Amithlon, then he wouldn't have needed to go near Amiga Inc... but in the end it wasn't Ainc that killed Amithlon (since he could have gone the AmigaForever route)... it was H&P that killed it.


I stand corrected.

But yeah, that would have been an ideal marriage.

Btw, since you're on, whats the deal with binary compatability with Amiga apps when running AROS in a 68k environment?

--edit--

Nevermind, you just answered hehehe.

Another question then, how complete is AROS in this sort of mode, ie, if it were running on either a real amiga or something like a NatAmi, how close to complete is it in terms of a full replacement to AOS3.1?



The 68k branch is so stale now.. it would take a bit of work for someone to bring it up to date with the mainline... Though I guess the big issues would be around bootstrapping and drivers... the problem is there are so few 68k linux machines to allow easy development :-(

The bounty for the 68k port is large thoguh so perhaps someone would like to have a look... :-)

Offline pixie

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #259 on: August 08, 2008, 10:43:08 AM »
Quote
I happen to be British also, and I too would perfer to not be refered to as European... because I'm not.


On denial? :roll: What would you be, American? Asian, Afro?


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline the_leander

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #260 on: August 08, 2008, 10:43:23 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:


The 68k branch is so stale now.. it would take a bit of work for someone to bring it up to date with the mainline... Though I guess the big issues would be around bootstrapping and drivers... the problem is there are so few 68k linux machines to allow easy development :-(


Could you not use the debian port to the amiga running under UAE? Or is that even more hidious a concept then it sounds in my head?

Quote

bloodline wrote:
The bounty for the 68k port is large thoguh so perhaps someone would like to have a look... :-)


Maybe the NatAmi could offer a fresh incentive, same goes for the Minimig I would imagine.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #261 on: August 08, 2008, 10:44:39 AM »
Quote

CodeSmith wrote:
I'm not up with the politics over at AROSland, so I'd like to know: what does the closing of the TeamAROS site mean?  is it a portal like this site (meaning that the closing sucks, but it's not a dent in the big picture), or more of an important hub?  I've also heard that some important AROS core devs have decided to call it quits following this, so all AROS development moving on will be x86 only.  Is this true?


Really it's just changed hands. All of the TeamAROS bounties have transfered to Power2People. Business as usual really... though we won't have Dammy nagging us to support the bounties :-(

No devs have quit because of this. And AROS has two primary branches now... with PPC and x86 being actively maintained...

Anyone want to get back into 68k Dev work?

Offline the_leander

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #262 on: August 08, 2008, 10:45:13 AM »
Quote

pixie wrote:
Quote
I happen to be British also, and I too would perfer to not be refered to as European... because I'm not.


On denial? :roll: What would you be, American? Asian, Afro?


Shocking as it might seem, maybe, just maybe, he's British...

I know, odd concept. But there you go.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #263 on: August 08, 2008, 10:46:20 AM »
Quote

pixie wrote:
Quote
I happen to be British also, and I too would perfer to not be refered to as European... because I'm not.


On denial? :roll: What would you be, American? Asian, Afro?


Well... no because I'm British... though I wouldn't mind being German :-)

Offline the_leander

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #264 on: August 08, 2008, 10:48:03 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

CodeSmith wrote:
I'm not up with the politics over at AROSland, so I'd like to know: what does the closing of the TeamAROS site mean?  is it a portal like this site (meaning that the closing sucks, but it's not a dent in the big picture), or more of an important hub?  I've also heard that some important AROS core devs have decided to call it quits following this, so all AROS development moving on will be x86 only.  Is this true?


Really it's just changed hands. All of the TeamAROS bounties have transfered to Power2People. Business as usual really... though we won't have Dammy nagging us to support the bounties :-(

No devs have quit because of this. And AROS has two primary branches now... with PPC and x86 being actively maintained...

Anyone want to get back into 68k Dev work?


Ya know, if I thought for a second he wouldn't get Nicholas (MDMA) to pay me a visit for increasing his already insane workload I'd suggest Karlos  :lol:
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #265 on: August 08, 2008, 10:50:55 AM »
Quote

the_leander wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:


The 68k branch is so stale now.. it would take a bit of work for someone to bring it up to date with the mainline... Though I guess the big issues would be around bootstrapping and drivers... the problem is there are so few 68k linux machines to allow easy development :-(


Could you not use the debian port to the amiga running under UAE? Or is that even more hidious a concept then it sounds in my head?


I have no idea... At the moment our best bet is Bernd Roesch, who builds AFA (where he backports parts of AROS to AmigaOS, so as to bring the advanced features of AROS to 68K machines)... this is one of the more interesting things going on in the Amiga world right now IMHO...

Quote

Quote

bloodline wrote:
The bounty for the 68k port is large thoguh so perhaps someone would like to have a look... :-)


Maybe the NatAmi could offer a fresh incentive, same goes for the Minimig I would imagine.


I would hope so... but the AmigaOS ROMs are so easy to come by... and the only real users of MiniMig are Amiga Owners who already have Amiga ROMs... the drive just isn't there...

Offline Atheist

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #266 on: August 08, 2008, 11:17:00 AM »
Okay, lets examine the differences:

Amithlon. No ECS/OCS/AGA emulation.

UAE/AmigaForever: No AGA


HOWEVER!

There is 180 megs of underlying OS needed for the emulators, on 1,000 plus variants/configurations of HW, AND can true rad: reboots be done?

Emulators also depend on the underlying OSs grumbling stumbling of other activities it does. Boy, you should see my windross xp Pro crawl when I SW disable internet access, and fail to work when I turn off swapping.

The FPGAs, I would call nearly true Amigas, only slightly below ASICs as what they both do is AMIGA and ONLY AMIGA related.

As for cycle exact, the NatAmis should ALL be cycle exact ...... TO EACH OTHER. That is paramount! That was one of the true purities of Amiga. Generally there was cycle exact across a huge amount of machines.

Of course, true cycle matching is ONLY when the same list of programs are being run on the same machines doing the same tasks.... well a video game running on the same HW and no other SW multitasking in the background.

Amiga had the unique situation of being a home computer, having an extraordinary USER based OS (all privileges given to the USER), extraordinary custom HW, and having MOST machines operate identically (relatively) always as Playstaion or Nintendo consoles do to each their own.

The only gripe I have with minimig is the lack of full ram of 2 megs chip, 8 megs fast.


NatAmi60 will prove to be the ULTIMATE COMPUTER* only surpassed by an ASIC running at 2.8+ GHz.

* It's just a fluke that the ultimate computer is an AMIGA.

There is a superior to this version even, and without going multicore SMP. Seems there's no way to go SMP.

Although, how about running AOS3.0 in every core? Separately, four AOSs running at the same time. You could even be running different versions in different custom chipsets. They talk to each other as though they're other computers through fake parallel port links. Just divide up the tasks to different CPUs on your own. Run Pagestream on 1 CPU, a rendering program on another, a paint program in another, etc. A custom memory controller would separate the ram pools so the CPUs don't need to keep track of not overwriting other CPUs data. A fatal crash even couldn't write over another CPUs address space as long as the memory controller absolutely knew which CPU was sending data to ram and never allowing the data to cross ram segments.

How about one core monitoring the others, and if a guru meditation occurs, it can be rebooted from that CPU, automatically? TRY to make a self recovering computer, quadruple uptimes.....


For those who haven't seen it yet, Still Alive, on YouTube.

ONLY AMIGA makes it possible!!!!!!!
\\"Which would you buy? The Crappy A1200, 15 years out of date... or the Mobile Phone that I have?\\" -- bloodline
So I guess that A500, 600, 1000, 2000, CDTV, CD32, are pure garbage then? Thanks for posting here.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #267 on: August 08, 2008, 11:20:12 AM »
Quote

Atheist wrote:
Okay, lets examine the differences:

Amithlon. No ECS/OCS/AGA emulation.

UAE/AmigaForever: No AGA


Ok... Which part of UAE has no AGA emulation?

I wish you wouldn't sprout rubbish.

Offline CodeSmith

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #268 on: August 08, 2008, 11:22:43 AM »
@Atheist

Um, Gunnar has said many times that "cycle exact" is meaningless when applied to the amiga.  There are too many permutations of CPU and chipset, so most Amiga software makes allowances for it.
 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Wither Natami?
« Reply #269 on: August 08, 2008, 11:26:50 AM »
Quote

Atheist wrote:

ONLY AMIGA makes it possible!!!!!!!


No, it doesn't. In fact if you had bothered reading this thread you would realise that Amiga makes a lot of things impossible!!!!!!!