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Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« on: November 09, 2017, 07:34:26 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;832899
Problem is gunnar spends fpga gates on features he wants to do so there aren't enough for the things that we want.

Well this is his project, he want to make a modern implementation of a 68000 processor and he is using the Vampire and this shareware core as a development vehicle. I suppose AMD shouldn't have introduced 64-bit processors either by the poor logic that seems to be thrown around in this thread. The bottom line is the Vampire is out there, the Apollo core is being lead by a Processor designer that wants to do new things, yet still strives for full Amiga compatibility. It's work in progress and it aims to be better in the long run.  

So bitch and moan all you want, although I wish you people wouldn't, it's already here. get over it, it's apart of the Amiga community now.
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 08:30:55 PM »
Quote from: Chucky;832901
thing is that he is aprox 20 years too late..

so comparing to AMD and 64bit is poor..  as it was (is) in a time when it is developed... the amiga, 68k series etc died in the 90s..   we who are stupid enoufh to use those machines use it for nostalgic reasons. with 20+ year old software (with most lost sources) that will never be able to use all development anyway.

And yet its still here...

Can you point me to a forum about your projects, so I can relentlessly criticize and dismiss them with little knowledge of what is actually going on like you do here?
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 09:11:17 PM »
Quote from: Chucky;832905
DO NOT SAY NO TO THE LEADER.
Ah yes, first rule of the Apollo Cult...

Quote from: Chucky;832905

* Compatible with 68040/68060 while it isn't. it sure looks like it.. but not compatible.
Okay, you have any proof of said incompatibilities out side the tired FPU or MMU argument? It's striving to be fully compatible. the FPGA nature of the core allows updates to said core.
Quote from: Chucky;832905

* it is closed..
Just like most processors, supported instruction sets and such are openly documented.
Quote from: Chucky;832905

* you say: there is NO MMU! answer is: YES IT IS! but.. closed.. (so.. no MMU!)
I'm sure it could be documented in the future when the core is more solidified.. (see my turn to be dismissive)

Quote from: Chucky;832905

and they let vampire V1 users in the cold when v2 was out..  V2 was released  you will get 080, the most compatible cpu,  AGA  and fpu.
then, suddenly. no fpu.  until someone made a sofwareeulation. now parts of it will be there. but not all.  as there is no space suddenly. (as it apparenlty is filled with stuff noone asked for)
The original vampire was never intended to be a commercial item, just happened to become one after the fact. And the FPU argument again... how many times are you going to revisit this thing. FPGA can get updates, gold 2.7 HW+SW hybrid solution is quicker than anything else out there. Then you will try and say it's not out yet...
Quote from: Chucky;832905

all my stuff is open and free, just add it yourself. you do not need to ask.  maybe say what you want to add so we can agree of a method of implementation..  this is closed stuff.  then you really need to take the input

for my stuff.  well. do your changes, do a pullrequest and if it looks ok.. I will accept it.  if you do not accept my deny, do a fork..  done. problem solved

but my stuff sure ISN'T the greatest.. code is messy (as donemostly while drinking beers)  but can be changed by more or less anyone

As told many times: if this was a 68060 compatible solution (and also not a one man show).  damn I would close my eaglewindow on my left screen and redo all with that now..


remeber.. this ALL started as I just told that they should add MMU!  it ALL created this %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm.   DO NOT ASK FOR STUFF!
Okay....

Is this an FPGA solution, are you doing processor design? or is it just some accelerator using the limited stock of existing processors that will likely be very scarce to source in the near future?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:18:40 PM by TrashyMG »
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 10:37:16 PM »
Quote from: Chucky;832911
YES  you are right.. and THAT is why it is so damn sad that they do not listen..
It's not that they don't listen, it's just the goal of this project has a long term goals, and it may be different than what everyone else wants. But full compatibility is part of that long term goal.

Quote from: Chucky;832911
problem is the strange path they are taking, totally forgotten every damn issue we had whe there was the SLIGHTEST change in cpu or chipset register.
It's why it's a living project, the end user tests things, reports back issues and hopefully they work out the problem... literally there are people testing the hell out of the beta cores.

Quote from: Chucky;832911
I mean. if it was ANY motorola cpu done perfect  AGA done exact and RTG and AHI ..   it would be so damn freaking awesome.
That is essentially the goal of the Gold 3 core update...

Quote from: Chucky;832911

but trying to do a "new amiga" introducing new ways of software to fail.  is just so sad..  Sorry but noone will use their amiga as their main platform again.

AMMX etc etc will not be used as i would guess 90% of all software we use, the sources have been lost forever and cannot be re-written or recompiled.
or they need to be rewritten, but reember WITHOUT using the debuggingtools people are used to......)
Honestly I was about to get a Furia when I saw information on the Vampire... the concept of writing code for AMMX and breaking ground a new 68000 architecture with 64-bit instructions had me intrigued.

Quote from: Chucky;832911
new screenmodes and stuff in chipset later. NO softtware will support it. NONE.  NADA!  but with RTG we have software already that supports it.
not available in RTG API!.  well create a new API for it. let more peole add stuff that way. (Warp3D etc etc)
SAGA uses RTG... it works just like a Picasso device... RTG software works fine without any tweaking on the Vampire.
Quote from: Chucky;832911
16 bit audio. same thing there.. NO software supports it..   AHI is the solution.
It's fully Paula compatible, and likely will have an AHI support, the team consists of people with driver writing experience.. not sure where the argument is.

Quote from: Chucky;832911
so if they just listen it would be an awesome product..  

so it is so sad.  it could be so, so awesome..   the vampire that is.

and this offer of licesing out for HW developers?  well.  they just say MMU and %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!storm starts here AND on a1k..  it is not accapted to ask about things.  HOW can you then start a cooperation when there are tension the first 10 minutes over a legit question!.
Well it IS an awesome product, only people I hear complain about it are people that don't own one. I suppose I never experienced the Fast 68060 or PPC accelerated era of Amiga,  I just played games from floppy drives. The Vampire gives me something I never had, so it's awesome for me. As for the licensing issue, it's Gunnar's project, he hopes to have an ASIC created eventually that could reach more moderns speeds, I can see why he wants to protective of it, but still want to give something to the community, even if that community has people that feel threatened by it... so...
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 12:11:22 AM »
Quote from: Chucky;832918
no.  they apparently changes stuff.. so not FULL AGA done exact!
done exact means ALL restrictions mustbe there, AND all bugs! as it might be used in.. well.  demos etc.
Gold 3  core is still in internal debugging likely release is 1Q 2018, IE it's still being worked on and getting tested thoroughly. It's not a one man operation, several people are helping develope it. Why do I get a feeling you still don't understand that an FPGA is programmable?

Quote from: Chucky;832918
I got my Vampire as I guessed it sould be the killerthing..  and I got a nice offer so yeah I take it now.  I will get the fpu etc later..

this however seems not to fully happen.. I guessed I could make an A500 an awesome AGA demomachine later.. but. .no.
and it should be so compatible.. it wasn't. it ended in yes.. it runs sysinfo nicly.. but.. nah. this doesn't even feel amiga. (and this comes from me using WINUAE mostly when coding)
ugg not sure exactly where you are going with this, don't know which things didn't work. I haven't seen an OCS/ECS title that didn't run with WHDLoad, all my floppy games work as intended too. Most things that use RTG work fine too... It's likely just your setup.


Quote from: Chucky;832918
well yes!  but they also call the AGA addons "SAGA" just to confuse even more.. and that will just introduce more issues.  
So programmer/engineers are bad at naming things, nothing new.



Quote from: Chucky;832918
no it isn't as they apparently added stuff. and.  apparntly via chipset..  sigh!  WHYYYY!..
You can add things without breaking compatibility, also you can just use the real paula if you want to...

Quote from: Chucky;832918
I own an V500 so I have tested it.  and.. it is not in my box of "well  crap pcbs" haven't even bothered to remove the CF adapter on it :)
I need one for my A2000 willing to sell it?
Quote from: Chucky;832918
if this was in the beginning of 2000 it would be aswesome.. now it is too late for the new cpustuff etc.
Well myself and others are having fun with it, not too interested in Emulation or PPC offerings so it's right up my ally.
Quote from: Chucky;832918
Would ANYONE accept that people did changes like this on the C64?  
sure why not, PIMP it out.
Quote from: Chucky;832918
Anyway.  it is time to stop..   vampire fanatics will never understand my point, I understand theirs.. but their hope will fail as the team apparntlty does not want the programmers to use their platform not suppling the possability of using their debugtools.
Just need to get new debug tools, software just needs to catch up, which is why this offering is trying to bring in a bigger base of people.
.

Quote from: Chucky;832918
so number of software supporing the 080 stuff I guess will be aprox the same as the PPC. (and that is very low.  damn I should sell my CSPPC and BPPC :)) while consuming space making you need to softwareemulate other stuff you MIGHT use..
Well legacy software works, it works very well. the inherit nature of 68080 processor design being able to run more instructions in a clock cycle alone boosts current software even if clocked at legacy speeds. As for dedicated software. Optimized libraries could do wonders and it's not as if their team have people that can do that type of work, just they're off doing other aspects of the project. But then I suppose al this will induce another false "Incompatibilities" rant on your behalf.

Quote from: Chucky;832918
his project. sure.. yes!  true.. it IS!  if he want to do bananas shooting out the screen every 10th minutes. he can do that.   but if someone thinks that is a bad idea maybe not be angry of it.. especially when asking for cooperation..

He is temperamental for sure at times, but he is faced by a wall of people making negative comments based on falsehoods spread by people being dismissive or purposely attacking the project. I can see how he may be upset from time to time or mistake a legitimate inquiry as another trolling attempt that happens often on IRC.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 12:16:45 AM by TrashyMG »
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 12:32:07 AM »
Quote from: sean_skroht;832920
LOL. Majsta wasnt at Amiga32.

@Chucky So yeah talking to Gunnar on IRC, it wasn't Majsta you where talking to. You where complaining about Gunnar directly to his own face...
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 03:35:35 PM »
Quote from: kolla;832956
Let's see what the faq says these days....



Various teases and hints have said "HW 040/060 FPU", but I guess this is not for 2.7 then.

It is for the V4 vampire, which will likely release before Gold 3 hits.

The V2 obviously can't fully implement it.
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 03:48:51 PM »
Quote from: kolla;832960
So - V2 - what is the reality?
I think it was invented just to annoy you...
Quote from: kolla;832960
The teaser videos showing V2 with "hardware 040/060 FPU" running Quake etc, is that not the kind of FPU that supposedly does not fit into the V2 FPGA?
It doesn't fit, there is a small subset of FPU functions on Hardware the rest is being done by an 68080 optimized version FEMU made by Jari.  That of course is the V2. The V4 won't need FEMU as it will have the full fledged FPU in the core.


Quote from: kolla;832959
All the problems with the Apollo Core project have their base in one thing:

BAD COMMUNICATION!!!

And there is no "language barrier" to hide behind.

Of course, they're a small team focused on getting things done and updating pages and wikis takes time out of development work.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 03:52:37 PM by TrashyMG »
 

Offline TrashyMG

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Re: News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 01:49:28 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;833216
Unfortunately, again misconceptions here. Of course AmigaOs has a mechanism to handle the differences between logical and physical addresses for DMA devices. This mechanism consists of two exec functions, namely CachePreDMA() and CachePostDMA(). And they are even used by the DMA-capable devices CBM manufactured. Not by some third-party devices drivers whose authors "believed to know better", and they are patched away to almost-nothing by some other group of users that "believe to know better what they are good for".

*Sigh*.
Gunnar answers your post on the bottom of this thread.
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=11026